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25 November 2015


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Outrage Beyond

Interesting. It certainly broadens the j'accuse regarding the "accomplices of terrorists."


I'ld say it is being leaked. By whom is another matter entirely.

robt willmann


That is a very significant quotation from Putin. As I was taught, that would be the lead paragraph in the news story: that Russia is telling the U.S. in advance where its planes are going to go, and the implication is that someone from the U.S. leaked that information to Turkey which used it to target the Russian plane. But the writer put it as the last paragraph in the story!

Here is an article by George Abert, allegedly a former member of Air Force Intelligence; the AIA, I assume. If he is genuine, the article supports earlier reports that Russia has developed some significant electronic jamming / blinding technology--



FB Ali,
I didn't mean to suggest that Erdogan acted spontaneously, to the contrary. I was expressing doubt that he consulted NATO beforehand, let alone was instructed by NATO.

I propose that he acted deliberately but on his own and expected NATO, certainly the US and atlanticist hawks, to fall behind him after the fact. They have been predictable and reliable in that regard.

FB Ali

"Is Putin telling the truth about the flight plan?"

He is smart enough not to make such a significant claim without his being able to prove that it is true. He doesn't do stupid!


And if you are a Borgista, what is not to like about that? It will strongly damage the EU and Russian economies and relations, all in line the "world island" hypothesis. With luck a new Cold War can be initiated. All good for the dollar, so QE can continue with less risk, and the financial sector in New York will benefit.
Why the European leaders are so weak I cannot answer ... they seem more loyal than East European leaders in 1949...


I apologize, i'm accustomed to so much Obama derangement syndrome floating around that that i thought it was more of the same. i'll try to look before i mouth off in future.


oh sure blackmail, i'm just curious about the sordid details.

The Beaver

I was reading on France24,

Erdogan: "I called Putin, he is not answering"
"we need to talk"

Outrage Beyond

I gave you a couple examples.



Thanks for the link. I didn't know about Unz's website. There are so many good columnists/bloggers there. I've been spending the whole day today reading their articles. Good'ol Pat Buchanan is there too. Our country would have been in a different place today had won the 2000 election.

Good stuff!

Happy thanksgiving to all



Donald Trump is the last chance our country has to get on the right path using peaceful/democrat principles.

Either we fix the current problems through democracy now, or our children will have to fix them through a civil war 30 years from now.

different clue


I remember reading somewhere that when Obama became a Senator that he was intending and assuming to serve some time in the Senate before thinking of the Presidency in the medium-term future.

But Senator Reid lobbied Obama and lobbied Obama hard to the effect that the 2008 election would be his only chance to run for nomination and then election. Reid convinced Obama that it was 2008 or never.

If that is correct, then we may fairly regard Obama as Reid's gift and Reid's legacy.

different clue

Outrage Beyond,

The Coalition of Moderate Jihad.
The Coalition of Moderate Terror.
The Coalition of Moderate Cannibal Liver-Eating Jihadi Headchopping.
Or whatever we want to call the Big Coalition which Obama wishes to be seen leading.

Larry Kart

My response to that column was, "If wishes were camels, we could drink our fill at the next mirage."

Chris Chuba

I totally agree with you Babak, the partitioning of Iraq and Syria seems to be a Western obsession at the moment by the ever arrogant Neocons. It's funny that they accuse Russia of having this intention in Syria, to me this looks like a case of them projecting their own ambitions onto Russia. In Syria, the Neocons want either a Sunni dominated country or a partitioned country.

I am glad that you mentioned the issue of forced displacement, many people that talk of partitioning being some kind of panacea don't consider the negative aspects to it ...
1. Disenfranchised minorities still exist and are sometimes displaced, the divisions that caused partitioning increase rather than decrease tensions among mixed communities.
2. The newly created countries are weaker than the original country.

I was making the point that while many people talk glowingly about a Kurdistan, the Kurds might actually be better off as a semi-independent district within Syria and Iraq rather than a totally separate country because they benefit from a security stand point from the central govt's.

In any case, partitioning should never be imposed on a country by external forces, especially the west. If it is ever done it should be by the consent of the host country and referendum by the local population. Unlike the Neocons I actually respect national sovereignty.


"... let alone was instructed by NATO"

FB Ali,
having said that, on second thought, with the Biden and Nuland people, everyting is possible - you may just be right. They idea would be what, gain leverage over Russia by showing them theirn vulnerabilities in an attempt to insert the US into Syria? Geez.




Seems like that's already happened: "After the incident, Turkey was reported to have suspended air strikes against Islamic State (IS) militants in Syria as part of "a mutual decision taken with Russia, which has also halted its aerial campaign near the Turkish border", Turkish media quoted officials as saying."
Although when they write "Islamic State" I think they mean the Kurds...

Babak Makkinejad

It is not even a mirage; it is more like a "Brain Fart".

Babak Makkinejad

I think this is a Apologia for Saudi Arabia.

While I think as long as there is Life, there is also Hope, I am rather doubtful that Saudi Arabia can be altered in any fundamental cultural manner in the coming years or decades.

The spread of Information Technologies is not necessarily a panacea; in fact, current advances in IT, Embedded Systems, AI and software makes it possible to create a sort of oppressive dystopia that would make Stalin's Reign of Terror in 1930s look like the heights of Liberty.

Consider the current situation: Religious Police is equipped with long sticks that they use to hit women's calves in order to inflict pain on women so that they would go to mosque or elsewhere to perform their midday prayers.

With available technologies, Saudi Arabian women could be retrofitted with some sort of electronic ankle monitor - controlled centrally - that starts administering pain if they are not in the vicinity of designated prayer centers, mosques, or "home chapels" during prayer hours.

And that could be just the beginning.



I'm sure the owners of Google and Facebook will assist in the effort too.

David Habakkuk

Larry Kart, Babak Makkinejad, Fred,

It's the old game, familiar to any reader of Kipling: 'Fool the stupid sahib.'

Any journalist who is not a complete cretin, who has worked even marginally in the 'Third World', ought not be fooled like this. How Friedman can be, after all these years, defeats me.

But actually, these games are not in any way peculiar to the 'Third World'. Having when young spent happy hours delving into the undergrowths of London politics, I can tell you that the English can be quite as ingenious liars as the Saudis.

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you for your kind comments.

Kurds want to have their own country or countries and I do not think a rational discourse with them on this issues is possible.

One only needs to look at Catalonia to see the deep emotional attachments that people develop and have developed to nationalistic ideas.

That the realization of those ideas and ideals is rather impractical and will only lead to death and destruction is irrelevant to hyper-nationalists.

I think this sort of problem will continue to inflict many existing states for the indefinite future until such ideas lose their potency; if ever.

Babak Makkinejad

You do not know the depths of resentment among women, being treated literally like sheep.

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