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01 October 2015

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William R. Cumming

IMO Israel still benefits from the residuum of hard and soft power of Russia and the US! As long as that lasts [and time running out for both IMO] Israel will last.

Origin

Perhaps the first step in Palestine's new status as a state would be to enforce its own borders.

As a state, the Palestinians logically should take the position that the settlements are all in Palestine and subject only to Palestinian laws and that the residents of the settlements are not Israelis, but Palestinians subject only to the Laws of Palestine. Then, in the spirit of the consequences of the Karma of the Israelis and settlers ignoring of Golden Rule, they can subject the settlers to the reciprocal limitations the Israelis have subjected on the Palestinians starting by making them stateless by confiscating their passports and identity papers and enforcing the wall to keep them in Palestine by setting up gates on the Palestinian side of the Israeli checkpoints to keep the Jewish citizen of Palestine in the prison that is Palestine. You know, the idea of equal justice done to the settlers that the Israelis do to the Palestinians. Also enforce equal housing opportunity on the settlements.

As so many conservatives say, a country is not a country if it cannot enforce its borders. Logic says that Palestine is a country. It has a right to enforce its borders and put its writ on all of its inhabitants with equal protection and taxation for all.

FB Ali

Which universe are you living in?

FB Ali

Mahmud Abbas's speech was a joke (as he is himself).

As Al Jazeera said about this 'declaration' in its report: "More of a warning than a declaration, Abbas.....ostensibly left himself wiggle room by using vague wording and adding a number of caveats".

One of the reasons for the sorry state Palestinians are in is the corruption and double-dealing of their leaders, Abbas leading.

The US, Israel and Egypt are creating fertile ground for the Islamic State to find recruits and support.

jdledell

Origin - Sorry to burst your idea bubble. First, the settlers live in Area C, 2/3rds of the West Bank where Israel has full security and administrative control. Palestinians are crammed into Area A, Palestinian cities, or Area B, land that surrounds those cities. Areas A & B is where Palestinians have security control, if Israel allows it. Consequently, until Israel allows Area C to be secured and administered by the Palestinians there are no Jewish settlers to put under Palestinian laws.

Second, if the Palestinians ever tried to restrict the movement of Jewsih settlers they would be mowed down like rats. There is no way the Palestinians can match Israeli firepower. I once watched the IDF try to arrest a Palestinian who was holed up in a small house in al-Birah. They did not bring in a SWAT team - they simply brought in a tank which fired 3 rounds into the house - no more house, no more Palestinian.

Imagine

Gaza is scheduled to have irreversible damage to its aquifers within five years; already 90% of the water is undrinkable by humans. (Gaza: 1.8M people):

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/gaza-2020-liveable-place
http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/09/gaza-united-nations/403570/
https://www.rt.com/news/314577-gaza-water-shortage-humanitarian/
http://unctad.org/en/PublicationsLibrary/tdb62d3_en.pdf

I conclude from this that most probably Israel's strategy is simply to wait, and the problem will resolve itself.

See here for a different conflicting narrative:
"Israel Doubles Water Supply to Gaza"
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4665260,00.html
but this looks like water which is charged and must be paid for. The joke here:

http://unctad.org/en/Pages/PressRelease.aspx?OriginalVersionID=261
"The [U.N.] report reveals that in the first four months of 2015, Israel withheld almost $700 million of Palestinian clearance revenue, which comes from taxes on imports into the Occupied Palestinian Territory, compounding a fiscal crisis for the Palestinian National Authority, on whose behalf Israel collects the revenues.

Since 1997, Israel has withheld Palestinian clearance revenue on six occasions, for a total period of four years and one month, and amounting to $3 billion withheld. At 75 per cent of fiscal funds, this represents the main source of Palestinian public revenue. In addition, Israel does not pay interest on money it does not transfer to the Palestinian National Authority when withholding Palestinian clearance revenue, which is in the range of hundreds of millions of dollars."

so it goes.

jdledell

Linda - It's way past midnight in Israel/Palestine. I am a Jewish Israeli citizen that has returned to the U.S., the land of my birth. I have been going back and forth to Israel 2 to 3 times a year and have for the last 60 years. I listen to Israeli politicians tell the people they is no Palestine and thus no Palestinian state. What everyone in Israel is talking about now is to annex Area C and let Area A and some of Area B autonomous Palestinian zones. If the Palestinians don't like it they can move. 98% of Israelis call that territory Judea and Samaria and the word West Bank is rarely used anymore. Israel is confident that the rest of the World will give lip service to sanctions/boycotts when Israel creates Palestinian bantustans. This is one of the reasons Netanyahu maid such a bog stink about the Iran deal so that little Israel is given an almost free pass on bantustans.

Imagine

Strategist B. Bueno-de-Mesquita proposes a self-enforcing game-theoretic solution "requiring each side to have incentives to promote peace and resist terrorism purely in their own interests, utterly without concern for whether it helps the other side". As example, he proposes the Israeli & Palestinian gov'ts treat to distribute a proportion of their tax revenues from tourism to each other. Peace would pay off handsomely to both sides. A win-win solution based purely on self-interest. There are non-obvious fine details required for this to work. See "The Predictioneer's Game", pp. 103-115.

Poul

My thought too with regards to the water supply to Gaza.

The same policy could also be used in the West Bank. No water, no life. And if the only way to get water is to obey the Israeli masters... Well you either abase yourself or leave for a another country.

Castellio

Yes, they consistently seed the field... and have been doing so for a long time...

Castellio

Right... well, you have the apt moniker for your comment.

The reality is way beyond good intentions leading to mutual assistance. Its important to really read and understand what jdledell just wrote.

Origin

Should have put the irony alert sticker on the post. As we all know, the Palestinians have as much chance as the Apaches. In 1872.

different clue

jdledell,

So, 2 State Solution nostalgiasts and legacy Rabinists and so forth are down to 2% of the JewIsraeli population? This is literally arithmetically correct?

different clue

Imagine,

The only way I could see the IsraelGov side agreeing to such a thing would be if total governing power over Israel were re-taken by the 2 State Solution nostalgiasts and the legacy Rabinists and so forth. They would have to win a civil war against the various Revisionists and Settlerists to be able to conquer that power. Is there any reason to think there is enough of them that they could win such a civil war if they even dared try?

FB Ali

Is that an attempt at humour?

Green Zone Cafe

Only path for the Palestinians is to dissolve the PA and all of its policing institutions and begin a campaign of passive non-violent resistance for voting and seats in the Knesset. "No taxation without representation" should be their slogan.

Only this can change things now. It would only work on the West Bank, of course; the governance of Gaza is irrelevant to the Israelis.

LeaNder

The larger financial tax system is interesting.

There was at least one tax strike once. It resulted in Israeli confiscations.

Another issue, I do not know too much about, but it seems that the Palestinians pay higher prices then Israelis for water. Never mind that some comes from the occupied land. It may well have been the reason behind some early settlements.

*****
... at one point I noticed that German media reported about the tax money once again withhold, or the share of it, I guess, was reported as if it was money given to the Palestinians not their own money withhold to exert pressure and then released again. Maybe the people reporting it weren't even aware of the issue.

Yesterday there was a documentary on the French/German Arte channel about EU complicity. Billions for what? Money instead of politics? Haven't watched it yet.

Sorry Google translate link only available in French and German

http://tinyurl.com/Arte-Palestine-Eu

LeaNder

jdledell, I once was close to moving to a artist Kibbutz or maybe it was a little former Palestinian town, I lost contact with the woman that invited me in Amsterdam. ...

But when I read Tanya Gold's report about German converts I was reminded of it...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/06/judaism.secondworldwar

I didn't keep notes and don't recall where exactly it was located. We mainly talked about arts and the art the people staying there did. I do not even remember if it was a Kibbutz, something I no doubt found attractive at the time, or if it was simply a Palestinan village that the artists "occupied" in. I would have had only rather vague awareness at the time about such a possibility. Maybe none at all, I have to admit.

LondonBob

The fast growth of the religious extremists, with their high fertility, and the increasing radicalisation of Israeli society, in the overseas Jewish community as well, points in only one direction for the Palestinians. Israel is certainly one country that should not have extensive nuclear and chemical weapons.

I find coverage of the Palestinian occupation has almost entirely been dropped from the MSM here in Britain, which has however been offset by the growth in alternative media. Really we will need action from the outside world, sooner rather than later. I think Europe is increasingly engaged on the issue, but the Arab world seems more focused on the Sunni Shia civil war. Maybe a resolution to Iraq and Syria, with an increased Russian role in the ME, will add new stimulus to efforts. I do wonder why Abbas was in Moscow with Erdogan for the Mosque recently.

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