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02 October 2015

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rjj

Graduated Switzer Learning Center for troubled kids.

http://www.capses.com/directory/03-east-south-central-los-angeles/switzer-learning-center

Tyler

I guess since the shooter turned out to be a Wiccan Mulatto who shot Christians we need to focus on the guns according to the MSM versus blaming a flag or "racism".

The response of some to this mess shows we are heading towards a civil war or velvet divorce in this country.

AbuAbdullah

In my opinion it becomes dangerous in many ways to categorically label these people as insane. Events such as this are a new "normal", an unavoidable byproduct of modern American society(there are many factors deriving from this,some very arguable), and if guns weren't available it would be done with knives, hatchets and cleavers like in China.

turcopolier

tyler

He was a neo-confederate I am sure (irony).

Babak Makkinejad

I heard that rural United States is permeated with drugs; could this be yet another male dope-head who could not hold his drug?

I am so inclined to think.

AEL

I think Madison is simply wrong here. Looking at the history of the last 200 years, I don't see an armed citizenry providing any actual bulwark against tyranny. Indeed, in Western Europe and elsewhere representative democracies have arisen and thrived. Armed citizens organized into militias are clearly not that important.

turcopolier

AEL

You seem to have missed the fact that guerrillas have been demonstrated to be effective on every continent but Antarctica. You are a Canadian. Canada has a tradition of submission to government. That is why you exist. Of course there was the 1837-38 revolt against the crown put down by force of British arms and accompanied by execution of the patriot leaders and transportation for many others. My Anglo ancestors said to hell with it and moved back to the states. And then there was the racist suppression of the metis under Louis Riel. pl

Patrick Bahzad

Stating that representative democracy has arisen and thrived in Europe without armed citizenry, is clearly a fallacy.

How did the French Revolution that brought down absolutism ? With the "garde nationale" (exactly the same name as the US national guard) storming the Bastille on July 14th 1789.

The whole of 19th century Europe was shaken by the citizens' revolutions demanding both democracy and nation States. In some cases it worked, in others it didn't.

Now you can state of course that some countries achieved democracy peacefully, but that would be either States that went with the flow, with the "zeitgeist", or it would be authoritarian States that lost a war (Germany) or whose social model collapsed (Eastern Europe).

Anyhow, the bottom line is, belief in the uptake of democracy as a peaceful shift, a turn of the tide of history, is a total illusion.
The US example and legacy of citizenry as the first defence against tyranny is only one variation of the same theme.

If you take the "Marseillaise" for example, it is exactly on the same line: it is a call to arms of the citizens in the fight against tyrany. In that sense, the French armies of 1792 were citizen armies, comparable to that extent to the militias in the US system.

The main difference between Europe and the US being that in Europe, Statehood - in one form or the other - always predated the rise of democracy. In the US, you could argue that they arrived at the same time or even that democracy was established before an actual State (federal level) took shape.

rjj

given special school history would ask about prescription drugs first.

John Minnerath

Another homicidal maniac has slipped through the cracks? It seems so. Are there more of them now than 20 or 30 years ago? That also seems to be the case.
They're not all young disillusioned males, all age groups, sexes, races, and nationalities have done this.
Where's the common link, what's the rip in the social fabric that's led to this.
That's what the smart people who deal with disfunctional individuals need to be talking about. How to find indentifiers that will raise a real red flag before such an act occurs.

Tyler

Babak,

He could be on SSIs since he was weaned but the only question about these shootings in the US is:

"Does it advance the Narrative?" (i.e. White Shooter)

If the answer is YES we hear about it for months afterwards (Charleston) if the answer is NO (Chattanooga, Ft. Hood, Naval Yards, Omar Thornton, VA, SoCal, this one, etc) then the media talks about "guns are the problem" until they can get it off the radar with a Kardashian wardrobe malfunction.

They're not interested in reporting the facts, they just don't want to "let a crisis go to waste".

Mark Riebling

School shootings produce a massive discourse in which there seems to me strikingly little pattern recognition. I can recall no discussion of:

1. Why these seem to happen nearly always in public schools. Can anyone even name one that happened in a private school? One in ten US students is in a private school. We should see one in ten school shootings there, unless there is something special about public schools that conduces to these events. What could it be?

2. Since "urban youth" have by far the greatest daily access to guns, we should see by far the most school shootings in Harlem, Watts, Anacostia, etc., if access to guns conduces to these shootings. Instead, these mass shooting events occur much more often in the white suburbs. Why should that be?

3. Since women have the same access to guns (and schools) in this country and in these communities, we should expect about half of the school shooters to be female. But the shooters are male. Why should that be?

4. School shooters become instant celebrities because the media put up their faces and names. The attain instantly mythical status (apotheosis). What if the media voluntarily refrained from celebretizing these pyschos? Like they mostly voluntarily refrain from showing the faces and giving the names of rape victims? What effect might this have on the motives and incentives of the shooters?

In sum: We have a phenomenon that seems to have these general features: white males shooting masses of peers in suburban public schools and getting loads of attention for it. Should not these general features provide a starting point for discourse and further analysis?

Fred

AEL,

Right, these guys sure deserved to lose:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_revolutions_of_1848–49
Then there are these guys:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution

Lets not forget Canada's support for Ukrainian militias, well some of them anyway:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/12/ukraine-government-armed-standoff-right-sector-militia

Fred

Babak,

The rural drug problem is meth. This particular shooter grew up in LA not in a rural area.

AEL

The point I am arguing is that an armed citizenry organized into militias does not help in maintaining a representative democracy (which is the entire reason behind the second amendment).

Thomas

John Minnerath,

About the question of a common link, it would be wise for investigators to look into electronic gaming by the individuals involved. Is there subliminal messaging triggering mentally vulnerable people to act?

turcopolier

AEL

By that logic the US Army National Guard should be merely a reserve of the US Army. It is not and state leaders have consistently insisted on state militia status of the USARNG despite constant pressure from the Regular US Army to accept a status as merely an Army reserve. pl

John Minnerath

Thomas,
It's been studied, the finding is always no correlation.
I find many such games offensive, extremely anti establishment and vicious, but I'm in my 70's, not a teenager. I'm sure things I did at that age were thought to be extremely dangerous by my elders at the time.

Fred

Mark,

Look at that statistics of shootings in the US and you find this type of incident is an aberration and that the majority of shooters and victims are black. The other subject that will be dropped almost immediately is the incidence of mental illness in the case of shootings at schools.

AEL

I don't live very far from Batoche so I am familiar with the North-West rebellion(s). I do not see any evidence that arming and organizing the local citizenry into militias has kept Canada a democracy (although they did help against a few Fenians).

Certainly, I see no evidence that the second amendment protects the institutions of American democracy in any way.

Things that *do* protect democracy involve an informed and educated population, as well as respect for the law and its associated institutions. It's the whole "consent of the governed" thing. Look at eastern Europe post Soviet Union. Armed militias don't seem to necessary to keep a democracy (and where they exist, don't seem to be always on the side of angels).

AEL

Does any country other than the United States have the equivalent of the second amendment? If so, count em up, compare them to other countries and lets see how important it is to maintaining a democracy.

If not, then perhaps it is an old idea that doesn't carry its own weight.

AEL

I have no opinion on the importance of the National Guard versus the Army Reserve. It seems to me that it is a political struggle between levels of government and their associated "definition" of what the country is.

In school I was taught that Canada has a "Confederation" day (but Canada turned out to really be a federation) but the USA has a "federal" government (when the USA really was a "confederation").

Funny how the politicians always used one word, when the other was a better fit.

FND

Don't laugh. The LA times said he had white supremacist sympathies because on social media he included an iron cross in a picture, or some such thing, and that the iron cross is a Nazi symbol, which it is not of course. Its like saying shoes are Nazi symbols because Nazis wore shoes. Anyway, they are desperate to paint him as a right wing militant.

no one

All, The Pentagon released a statement saying that Mercer washed out of Army Basic after 35 days, in 2008, for failing to meet basic administrative qualifications.

Neighbors say he was "sketchy" and always looking around nervously.

The guns, 13 of them in total (seven left at Mercer's home), according to CNN, were purchased legally, by Mercer or Mercer's family, from a licensed dealer in CA.

Sounds like chronic mental illness.

Nancy K

He viewed himself as a conservative Republican, pro IRA, and had been kicked out of the army after 1 month. I would imagine he didn't just hate Christians, he probably hated everyone. Some people are so miserable they just want to make everyone hurt. I have not read he was on drugs but he apparently had a history of behavioral problems.
Another strange thing is his mother apparently would go to the shooting range with him. Why would a mother whose son has problems encourage him to shoot. Makes no sense at all.

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