The GOP Debate - 16 September 2015

pl

Comments

[bks]

High points for me: Carson says "I will not lick the boots of billionaires" and Rubio telling Carson that intellect is overrated. Fiorina "won the debate" but her body language and demeanor will be what people remember and they won't remember it well. Christie may have helped himself but at 2% in the polls he needs a lot of help. Cruz has a terrible voice.
Far, far too many people on stage. The CNN moderators were terrible at moderating. The presumptive candidate, JEB, did not help himself.

[Lars]

Baron Munchhausen's fables were more entertaining and were not endless like this process has the potential to be. If the GOP is lucky, quite a few will get off the stage by the time the votes are counted.

[Nancy K]

I think in the next debate, since they are not really debates at all, they should all strip down to loin cloths and duke it out. Fiorina can wear a two piece loin cloth with matching top.

[turcopolier]

All

Fiorina (the flavor of the hour) seems a hard edged business woman who is lacking in empathic instinct. She does not seem to comprehend a number of things I deem important; - There are no Arab armies waiting in the wings to throw themselves into the fray against the Sunni jihadis. If they wanted to do that they would have stepped up to home plate by now. This is not a question of equipment. it is a question of lacking the will to fight. - The Egyptians and others in the Arab World will take anything you are willing to give them free or on credit. That doesn't mean they want to fight anyone. They prefer to kill tourists and others who will not fight back. - Bibi Natanyahu is not a friend of the United States. His only use for us is a search for cash and the chance to use the armed forces of the US against his tribal opponents. - She expressed a desire to expand the US Army to a 50 brigade force and the marines to a 36 battalion force. Assuming that she wants that to go into tooth rather than tail, my back of the envelope analysis yields the thought that means a five division expansion of the army and a one division expansion of USMC, The downstream financial cost of such an expansion of her imagined global constabulary would be immense in terms of retirement costs and VA benefits. Do we have the money for that? Will we have the money for that in the future? More importantly where will the people come from? IMO the US population is no longer made up of potential patriot heroes. It has become much more like the consumerist post-nationalist population of Europe than it once was. I doubt that the potential exists to recruit such a force for overseas imperial campaigns. Women grunts? Foreign mercenaries? What? pl

[William R. Cumming]

I watched the prelims and main event in full. Some thoughts!

Some impact on polls post-debate may surprise.

Senator Lindsey Graham of S.C. flatly predicted that ISIS/DAESH would not be defeated in Iraq or Syria without more boots on the ground.

The DONALD stated he would release a public list of both FP and military advisers in next several weeks and more policy positions.

Almost all the candidates say military of US needs a rebuild.

And most agree next to immigration tax reform the next most important task for a new President. So all will be polishing up their reform proposals. SIMPLIFICATION seems one goal agreed on as a REFORM.

At least 5 candidates went to some length to discuss how their C.V.s documented their qualification for President. IMO the American voter long ago concluded that given the vagaries of the future character the most important factor in selecting a President.

Agree moderators not up to snuff and what on earth prompted the two joke questions?

I would argue all the candidates demonstrated at least some ability to think on their feet which is a rare skill IMO.

[William R. Cumming]

Respectfully disagree as to JEB. Time will tell in polls. JEB and Donald tallest candidates?

[turcopolier]

All

The problem with Donald seems to me to be the false analogy that he is spouting concerning the resemblance of government and business negotiations. It ain't the same. pl

[Matthew]

Col: And what does she plan on doing with all those new Soldiers and Marines?

She must be pure neo-con.

[Tyler]

Fiorina is Romney in a pantsuit. She is the last desperate hope of the GOP to stump the Trump, and it's not working.

I'd like to point out that Ann Coulter pointed out the outsized Zionist influence on Twitter and every fainted away dead from shock.

[Matthew]

Col: He also believes that all problems in economics and foreign policy can be solved through force of will. It's magic thinking, pure and simple.

[William R. Cumming]

"Carson"?

[Richard Sale]

I agree with Pat about Fionina.

She reminds me incessantly of the wicked stepmother in Cinderella. If an individual’s soul contains no warm temperature in it, the chances are that such a soul will turn out to be a heartless human being, and she is clearly one of those. Moral sensitivity is a gift, a gift that should be cultivated and developed. It enables us to detect genuine similarities to what we experience and what others experience as well. Sympathy acts to end isolation, and it lessens conceit. A morally sympathetic person takes the suffering of others to heart, at least to some degree. Another’s pain is your pain. Moral sensitivity demands you sympathize with the suffering of others and try to comfort them in the belief that your kindness can work wonders.

Fiorina is a fluent liar. Her lie that the Planned Parenthood videos showed “a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain,” was an inflammatory lie. The videos don’t show that at all.
She lied about her business success, boating that she had doubled the size of Hewlett-Packard without mentioning that was due to a merger with Compaq, and misrepresented other key facts.

There were human beings on stage last night, Paul, Jeb Bush, Christie, but their humanity was disfigured by the heartless doctrines they espouse.

Trump clearly lost last night. The fact that he has gotten as far as he has testifies to the increasing ignorance of the public mind. He is a conceited oaf, a blustering buffoon who never in any way exhibits any mastery of the facts. He has no idea of the importance of collecting intelligence and interpreting it correctly. He has never studied military strategy. He has not a vestige of those skills that make for successful diplomacy. Most of the candidates were believers in the use of collective force to solve international problems, an echo of Israel’s attitude to anyone who is not an Israeli.

But Fionina and Trump and Cruz, (the latter an abrasive little pipsqueak,) are a stink in Heaven’s nostrils in my view.

Richard Sale

[Jack]

While I'm no political pundit I'd like to offer up a forecast. Note this is not advocacy. I have no dog in the race as I don't vote for the duopoly.

The Donald will flame out as the race progresses and the novelty of his antics wear out. Jeb and Kasich will duke it out with Jeb prevailing as he has the big money backing, party big wig endorsements and organizational structure for the marathon. He'll select Fiorina as his running mate on the basis that it will shore up the woman vote.

The general election will once again be decided by a handful of states. Florida, Ohio, etc.

The majority of the American voters want an interventionist big government in both economic and foreign policy. The neocon, R2P, neoliberal interventionists will continue to dominate policy, politics and media. There will be a lot of rhetorical fireworks but nothing will change. Both parties will remain true to form with essentially the same agenda.

[turcopolier]

jack

amen. pl

[ex-PFC Chuck]

Per RS: "Moral sensitivity is a gift, a gift that should be cultivated and developed."

I agree wholeheartedly. The sad fact is, however, that when it comes to our fundamentalist neo-liberal political-economic system it doesn't. As the research of Martha Stout and others has shown, 4% of the population are sociopathic. This is bassed on MRI studies that show that the brain areas identified with empathy do not light up when the test subjects are shown photographs that elicit such reactions in most people. Images such as suffering animals and children. Furthermore such people are over-represented among sets of people who hold leadership positions in industry, government bureaucracies including the military and even religious institutions. And they are even more significantly over-represented on Wall Street.
"The Sociopath Next Door," by Martha Stout: http://amzn.to/1W51Yv3

[ISL]

Jack, I disagree that Trump will necessarily flame out, agree on rest. I think policy and to some extent, style are not how the particularly relevant to presidential selection (should be, but IMO aint). Trump works very well on a subconscious (marketing) level, and the usual gatekeepers (money and media access) dont apply to him. No value judgement intended.

And, his dirty laundry has long been flapping in the wind.

Adding to your prognostications, AIPAC will regain its strength as the standing candidates all swear (should be embarrassing) fealty.

[Babak Makkinejad]

I heard that drug use tends to fry the regions of the brain that sustain the notion of sympathy/empathy.

[BabelFish]

This is a summary of her tweets:

Conservative pundit Ann Coulter went on a Twitter tirade Wednesday night about "the f---ing Jews" and Republican presidential candidates' invocation of Israel during the Republican presidential primary debate.

Cruz, Huckabee Rubio all mentioned ISRAEL in their response to: "What will AMERICA look like after you are president."

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) September 17, 2015

How many f---ing Jews do these people think there are in the United States?

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) September 17, 2015

Maybe it's to suck up to the Evangelicals.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) September 17, 2015

Based on Census, another 300 immigrants entered the country during debate (33 per second) to vote against the GOP candidates' tax &war plans

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) September 17, 2015

Christie also talks @ Israel in response to the question: What will AMERICA look like after you are president?

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) September 17, 2015

How to get applause from GOP donors: 1) Pledge to start a war 2) Talk about job creators 3) Denounce abortion 4) Cite Reagan 5) Cite Israel.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) September 17, 2015

[BabelFish]

Richard,

I must confess that every time I hear her speak, the music to the evil flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz starts playing in my head.

[Paul Escobar]

Mr. Lang,

My suspicion is that the "business" thing is merely his "sell". He is wedded to this character for various reasons of campaign, drama, and symbolism.

I have seen some interviews with him. And in more relaxed moments, he stresses that what he looks forward to the most is appointing capable men to handle complex problems.

Delving even deeper into the names he has mentioned (for outsourcing the heavy lifting)...my feeling is that those are more symbolic (for the purposes of name-dropping within the GOP race) rather than serious.

I suspect as much, because he has a number of heterodox positions on foreign policy (and domestic) that he could not have possibly gotten from the inspiration he cites. That makes me suspect that, once he assumes power, we will see some surprising appointments (or perhaps, men who will surprise). And it might be these men who handle the work of government in a diplomatic manner.

Best,
Paul

[turcopolier]

Paul Escobar

Have you ever worked in a big business? He is the essence of the business shark. pl

[Tyler]

BF,

Pretty on point tweets from her.

[John]

You've got it exactly! Sociopaths.
Here is a direct link to the list of traits: http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/psychopathic-traits/
Keep this list by you for the next debate and you will see.

[Tyler]

Trump was hitting his ceiling at 20%, 30%, 40%, and the Acelea Corridor Crew will claim he will ceiling at 50%, 60% etc etc etc.

Trump is the best there is at immigration, and to be honest, that is the only issue that matters in this election. As Coulter said, the rest of the GOP candidates want to start seven wars and then import all the Muslims that get displaced.

[The Beaver]

Mr Sale and BF,

You need to read what her first husband Todd Bartlem has to say about her and how she uses people to reach her goal.

I knew her when she was responsible for Marketing for the Federal accounts for ATT. She got ahead because her second husband was a VP there.

As far as her talking about her "daughters", well the first wife of Frank Fiorina had custody of them. Thus she was not really a Mummy since she was more or less always on the road, something she loves ( thus her goal is not really POTUS but VPOTUS so that she gets to fly in private jets on someone else $$$$ around the world )