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15 September 2015

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b

As a German I agree with Hungary's position.

Merkel's invitation for migrants was utter stupidity. It will cost her, I hope, dearly in the next elections. Same for the traitor party the socialdemocrats.

If you say no-one is invited and raise up some (symbolic) walls few will come and can be quietly accepted. If you say you will take some (gigantic) quota like Merkel said than many more than the quota will come. Then what? They will pay thousands to smugglers and a lot of them will die on their way fleeing from a mostly safe if not comfortable positions towards some dream that no European country will be able to fulfill.

See also Channel 4 Alex Thomson on the issue:

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/migrants-refugees-opening-door-worse/9913

jld

Indeed Hungarians may some good reasons for not willing to have the immigrants even just "pass thru":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMqzz2sP7FU&feature=youtu.be

William R. Cumming

IMO nation-states must have control over their borders to remain nation-states, This includes airspace. Time for the EU leadership articulate their opinion and policies on controlling borders.

And remember we allow Cubans and Mexicans into the USA while we let Haitians drown.

johnf

Putin is all to blame for the Syrian crisis:

"'West 'ignored Russian offer in 2012 to have Syria's Assad step aside'

Exclusive: Senior negotiator describes rejection of alleged proposal – since which time tens of thousands have been killed and millions displaced

...Russia proposed more than three years ago that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, could step down as part of a peace deal, according to a senior negotiator involved in back-channel discussions at the time.

Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal. Since it was made, in 2012, tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions uprooted, causing the world’s gravest refugee crisis since the second world war.

Ahtisaari held talks with envoys from the five permanent members of the UN security council in February 2012. He said that during those discussions, the Russian ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, laid out a three-point plan, which included a proposal for Assad to cede power at some point after peace talks had started between the regime and the opposition.

But he said that the US, Britain and France were so convinced that the Syrian dictator was about to fall, they ignored the proposal..."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside

JLCG

I find the European paralysis almost necessary. For years our propaganda machinery hailed the flight of Germans from the GDR as a triumph for freedom.
Now other people want that same freedom and it would be unseemly to deny then access to it.

Tyler

Haitians are still TPS (Temporary Protected Status) which means they're non deportable from the earthquake years ago.

So are El Sals for that matter!

William R. Cumming

Norther Syria suffered from severe drought for the last five years aggravated by Turkish cutoff of some water resources. Thoughts?

confusedponderer

b,
I agree that Merkel's 'humanitarian' annoucenment will have the effect of an open invitation and sales pitch for trafficers and that it was a very imprudent statement to make.

And indeed, what if we get to 800.000? What then? They won't stop coming just because of that arbitrary number.

And, since housing asylum seekers is to be paid for by the Gemeinden, the local communities, they will rightfully complain about that additional financial burden being imposed on them.

I have a friend working in my town's Ausländeramt and get to hear his stories.

Recently there was some Green Party dame on TV (Hart aber Fair, iirc) where they were talking refugees. They had some case of a women whose asylum proceedings took YEARS, the poor thing, without going into just how it came to last that long. Ah, bureaucracy, obviously. The Green Party lady then quipped at one point that, if an asylum request isn't processed within 18 months, it should be considered granted. Brilliant proposal.

To wit, there are reasons other than incompetence why some proceedings take so long.

Typically they take so long because the asylum seeker has suppressed documents, didn't cooperate in establishing relevant facts and identity, perhaps lied, which when discovered leads to a reset for deadlines for toleration every time, had his or her asylum request refused for lack of cause, stayed in country illegally anyway, repeated the request, only to see it rejected again, sued against it, and so on and so forth.

Passport? I lost my passport. Besides, I'm still a minor, I only look so old because of all the hardship. Besides, I am traumatised. Safe third country? I don't recall passing though any safe third country while coming from Syria. I was sleeping the whole time, and when I awoke I was in Munich. Etc. pp.

The Ausländerämter are getting brazenly lied to all the time, and migrants are getting briefed by trafficers and facilitators abroad and inside Germany. When one reads the court proceedings in such cases, one can often find phrases like 'gerichtsbekannte Anwälte' ('attorneys known to the court' i.e. the usual suspects).

All her genius proposal would lead to is stalling, a maximum use of deadlines and document suppression.

Grizziz

Back in July, the Turkish EU Minister told the Europeans that the refugees were coming. The material cause was that Turkey had 2 million refugees and could handle no more. Naturally, keeping the western press busy by having them run after refugees through Hungarian corn fields while the Turks continue their nasty business against the Kurds, and getting Erdogan elected as 'President-for-Life" could be a welcome side effect. Still, Merkel was a bit nuts, when she yelled "fire" in a crowded theater by requesting 800k refugees.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/new-refugee-wave-may-exceed-turkeys-capacity-minister-warns-eu.aspx?pageID=238&nid=85233

Fred

CP,

"... housing asylum seekers is to be paid for by the Gemeinden, the local communities,... "

Sounds just like the American system.

SteveG

Read a couple of commentaries describing
this migration movement as the third
Islamic Hijra, Heigra. The soft infiltration of
non-Islamic states by non violent means to
eventual sharia law entities joining the greater
ummah. Is this a possibility??

turcopolier

Steve G

What was the second hijra? This is not a laughing matter and the phenomenon should be considered as something more than a "save the babies" moment wept over by the newsbabes. pl

SteveG

onepeterfive says 1683 Battle of Vienna.
September 11th. Wiki.

Tidewater

Tidewater to SteveG and turcopolier,

I want to add a bit to this interesting comment. I just looked up an essai by a Father Z, on 'Fr.Z's Blog'. He quotes from another blog, as SteveG says, called '1Peter5,' by Andrew Biezad.

Biezad states: "The world is reaping what has been sown. [That is, what the West has wrought in the Middle East.]" (His parenthetical remark.) " Hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced and are on the move, a massive sea of humanity flowing into Western Europe. They are also threatening to overrun the borders into Eastern European nations. The American and Western European governments are saying this is a 'refugee crisis,' and the news media, like good propagandists, run images of a few poor women, while neglecting to show us the rest of the situation. Not displayed is the mass of overwhelmingly, young, healthy, well-dressed males, carrying the latest smart phones...These men have come to riot, rampage,and destroy."

"[NB] (nota bene?) Lest anyone allow themselves to be deceived, this is not a normal migration--it is a hijra.

"'Hijra' does mean "migration" in Arabic. But it carries a deeper connotation. In Islamic history, the hijra was the event in 622 AD, when Muhammed and his small cult fled the city of Mecca to Yahtrib...which Muhammed renamed "Medina", which means "the city." This act marks three of the major events in Islam, which are:

1. The beginning of the Islamic calendar.
2. The creation of the first Islamic government.
3. The prolific use of violence and torture to propagate Islam..."

"In Islamic law and applied theology, the idea of the hijra pertains to the movement of a group of Muslims from a predominately non-Muslim area, with the goal of establishing Islam's dominance in it. After Muhammad's death, Muslims have counted two great hijras in the West. The first was the great Islamic expansion from 632 to 750, when Islamic armies conquered all of the territory from what is today central France to Uzbekistan. The second hijra included the Turkish migrations that resulted in the fall of Constantinople, and reached its zenith with Islamic armies besieging the gates of Vienna in 1683. It was during this last encounter that the horde was driven back by Polish Catholic forces into the Balkkan Peninsula, breaking the strength of the Ottoman Empire.

"The battle began on September 11, 1683. [No, it is not a coincidence.]"

(This is not my parenthical statement, once again.)

"After the Battle of Vienna, European regimes began to rapidly colonize the Middle East, and the remains of the Ottoman Empire diminished, eventually being formally abolished by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk in 1923 -- but not before purging over a million Armenian, Assyrian, Pontic Greek, and Turkish Christians from its lands between 1915 and 1917..."

"The first hijra conquered Jerusalem in 638. The second hijra conquered Constantinople in 1453. Two of the three oldest and holiest cities for Christians were conquered by Muslims.

"This, now is the third hijra. According to certain voices in the Islamic world, it will be the final hijra, the one that will conquer Rome."

End quote.

My opinion of this "hijra" angle is that it is going to be a powerful weapon for the anti-Islamic commentariat. We are going to hear a lot about 'hijra.' Frankly, there ought to be some caveats about this line of thinking.

I think the "hijra" idea--as part of the whole Islamist package-- is for failed males, whether immigrants or locally grown converts. It reminds me of Communism, 'The God That Failed.' (Koestler et al.)

Interestingly the blogger mentioned the island, Lampedusa. Refugees have been coming from North Africa by way of Lampedusa, which is not far off the North African coast, for years. European television has been constantly showing it. American television has only gotten interested recently. At one point about forty percent of one group of refugees were Christians, and from Eritrea.

Question: What is going on in Eritrea?

But it might be mentioned that a million Islamic people also drive south to certains ports in southern Spain every year at vacation time to cross over to North Africa. They make their visit and then they come back into Europe and back to their normal lives. The ferry from Alicante runs on a regular schedule to Tunis, I recall; certainly to several Algerian ports and to Morocco and Ceuta.

Islam is in Western Europe to stay.

If the European social fabric begins to be threatened by acts of terror by some of these Syrian newcomers, then it follows quite obviously that 'steps will be taken.'

In the meantime, I am thinking about a sharp guy I met in a quiet old- fashioned kind of German intellectual's bar on a street off the Ku'damm in Berlin. The guy was Iranian, had a son in the John F. Kennedy school there, was proud his son had gotten in , worked successfully in a critical job in international aviation and had done so for years, not only in Berlin, also in Ireland.

Thinking of him reminds me also that the people who describe themselves so often in the US as "Persian" and who represent a number of different groups are among the most successful imigrants to America. One in three makes over $100,000 a year.

Let us please show a decent respect for the Almighty ($).

I think one might as well chill out as to what these new folks' motives are. What we want to know is how much they make.

Balint Somkuti

There have been reports and comments by involved persons and organizations about this "intent" but I think it would be a side effect of a more complex phenomenon.

As a sidenote fifth column here and internationally have been ridiculing the idea of terrorist/ISIS infiltration among the migrants. Scores of group of males -young or medium aged alike- have been spotted marching in unison even in the state of serious fatigue in groups not numbering more than 8-10. Could be a previous military drill but we are not talking about a couple of friends fleeing together.

confusedponderer

In light of the talk of a 'third hirja', the Saudi offer to build 200 mosques in Germany is nothing less than insidious.

After all, it will mean - he who pays the piper calls the tune - that they will be Wahhabi mosques, and their Imams will share the Saudi Sunni supremacist outlook, and arguably their proselythising will not be easily reconciled with Germany's 'Freiheitlich Demokratische Grundordnung'.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-offers-germany-200-mosques--one-for-every-100-refugees-who-arrived-last-weekend-10495082.html

Kutte

Tidewater,

The guy was Iranian, had a son in the John F. Kennedy
school.... Thinking of him reminds me also that the people
who describe themselves so often in the US as "Persian"...

Maybe they prefer "Persian" to "Iranian". Entry from wikipedia:
"Iran" is a Modern Persian derivative from the Proto-Iranian
term Āryānam, meaning "land of the Aryans".


b

Some impression of the young, male and able "refugees" Erdogan or whoever is sending to Europe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrpwAEMe0c

Hmm - I would NOT want these in my neighborhood.

Balint Somkuti

It is time to decide whether these people are really refugees, migrants or the avantguard of a larger army?

Today the hungarian policemen defending the border were attacked with stones form serbian territory injuring 20 of them.

Wonder why the serbian authorities do nothing? (That was a rhetorical question).

In the meantime our 'close friend and trustful ally', Romania's prime minister Victor Ponta after lying about his doctorate, letting himself bribed, now insulted the hungarian govt in order to get some attention off him resulting in a diplomatic clash. European unity?

Balint Somkuti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrpwAEMe0c

"Peaceful migrants"

Serbia have officially protested for the use of watercannons, since it effected serbian territory. Why on earth do they allow mobs to rampage on their territory?

Has everbody gone crazy? Or in a true balkanian style let us get over with all our differences if there is an occasion anyway?

charly

The Iranians are also concentrated in California so making $100k is less of a deal. (still good though)

Babak Makkinejad

EU bombed Serbia and waged a war against it.

You cannot expect Serbs to help get your chestnuts out of fire now?

Balint Somkuti

1. At that time we were not the part of the EU and just joined NATO 3 days before the bombing began as a security guarantee against a possible serb escalation towards Hungary.

2. It was NATO which bombed Serbia not the EU.

3. They want to join so hard, at least on the level of speech. On the level of actual deeds they act absolutely contrary.

Diktat of Trianon broke Hungary back, their own Trianon (dissolvation of Yugoslavia and loss of Kosov just made them more furious.

confusedponderer

JLCG,
before making that BS quip, you did notice that back then it was Germans fleeing through Hungary into Germany and that the whole episode is commonly referred to as reunification?

Emphasis is on the 're' part. That was not migration from the east to the west by foreigners.

Germans of the communist part of Germany were Germans, they spoke German, they read Schiller and Brecht in School, too, probably even more so than in the West, and under our basic law, they had a CITIZEN RIGHT to come to West Germany. In fact, reunification was a stated goal of the basic law. That is an entirely different paradigm than we have today.

Last I read, our constitution has a provision to grant refugees aslyum from persecution for political, ethnic and religious reasons.

It does not contain a mission to better the lot of economic migrants coming here from somewhere else because their places of origin are hell holes and/or dens of poverty, let alone a right to immigration into Germany.

To allow foreigners to migrate into ones country is extending an act of generosity, as is asylum. The latter we value highly enough to give it constitional rank, not so the former.

Babak Makkinejad

To your number 2: a distinction without substance - in my opinion.

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