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26 August 2015

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turcopolier

Bryn P

I don't know about funding by SA of mosques in the US. In re surveillance I know you have CC cameras everywhere. We don't have that yet but it is coming I am sure, but I don't think Special Branch and the Security Service are as aggressive and pervasive in penetration of possible subversive groups as are the FBI and some local police forces like the NYPD. pl

Babak Makkinejad

Reminds me of this fellow in a wedding reception - a Euro-American - who mentioned how his daughter bailed out of a graduate program because the male students were not Euro-Americans.

It was funny because he said to me: "..no offense..."

Patrick Bahzad

Agree with PL,

Especially with reference to NYPD, which has done an outstanding job in terms of intel gathering, prevention of potential threats and analysis of shapes and patterns in radical Islamism, worldwide. These guys know what they're doing.

I suppose the FBI's activities are focused on the larger picture in some respects, even though we've all heard about those famous "spy planes" circling over Dearborn. Why this caused such a stirr is a mystery to me.

Patrick Bahzad

Interesting story ... although, what is a Euro-American ?

Babak Makkinejad

Euro-American is an American from European stock.

Patrick Bahzad

is that PC slang ? "Euro-American" as in "African-American" ?
And if so, what was the guy implying regarding the graduate programme ? Just wondering because I don't even get his point

rjj

It started out as snark at hyphenated Americans. Subtype Albo-Americans whose ancestors spoke Albonics, the patois of Perfidious Albion.

Babak Makkinejad

The daughter was attending a graduate program populated by men from the Middle East, India, Korea, China.

She could not possibly bring herself to marry such men as those; they were from inferior races/cultures.

Therefore she left that graduate program and moved elsewhere to meet eligible "White" young men.

I prefer to use the word "Euro-American" in lieu of "White"; with its racist and racialist connotations.

My sense of it has been that "White" in US was applied initially largely to Anglo-Saxons and others immigrants from Northern Europe (including France) but not to the Southern Europeans.

When Enrico Fermi went to see the US Secretary of the Navy, the sergeant walked into the Secretary's office and stated: "There is a dago here to see you."

Likewise for Jews and Spaniards.

I met people whose parents asked them not to give them "darkie" children by marrying an Armenian.

[Even though I am not Armenian, I have known many in my life, and I was personally offended by such remarks; who the Hell were these people? Some two-bit peasant who now lays claim to some sort of racial superiority to one of the most ancient and cultivated people in the world?]

Later, it seems to me, the "White" appellation was enlarged in the United States to include Jews and Italians and Spaniards and others - I suppose it was based on some sort of the enlargement of what constituted a "White" religion in the minds of Euro-Americans.

I met Jews in US who had a much darker complexion and kinkier hair than very many Iranians - yet they were considered "White" in the United States (perhaps not so in UK).

More than anything else, it is amusing.

I am Beige - in the parlance of the United States racial discourse.

Patrick Bahzad

Beige ? You kidding ??

I wonder what I would resent more, the homosexual or the racial implication ...

According to that chromatic code, Anglo-Americans should be termed "Pink" ;-)

Patrick Bahzad

oh thx for the semantics lesson ! Wasn't aware of that :-)

David Habakkuk

Babak Makkinejad,

I don't know. What I think likely is that persistent discreet efforts were made to attempt to make Americans realise that the Ulster situation was actually quite complex.

You might be interested in a piece by Peter Oborne, which touches on this, and also on British policy towards Iran.

(See http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-week/diary/8895981/diary-608/ .)

It is also of interest, in relation to the complexities of British identity. The historian Sir Lewis Namier, to whom he refers, and who had an immense influence on the writing of history here, was born Lukwik Niemiowski in what was then Congress Poland, from a family of secular-minded Jewish gentry.

He was a fervent Zionist, and a close friend and associate of Chaim Weizmann. But when Namier converted to Anglicanism to marry his second wife, Weizmann severed relations.

David Habakkuk

Patrick Bahzad,

In relation to Britain, a great deal of the explanation is that very many people actually swallowed that 'end of history' crap.

Put another way, people here, as in the U.S. drew all the wrong conclusions from the retreat and collapse of the Soviet Union.

annamaria

The Jihady propaganda does not have a chance to compete next to Mr. Michael Ledeen and his pro-war activities and heavy influence on the US policies in the Middle East. This man has been quite important for making decisions that led to the unimaginable looting of the US treasury on the phony wars in the Middle East and for endangering the U.S. interests and demolishing the U.S. reputation. Take a note that Mr. Ledeen is a committed Zionist. His is also an expert in fascism both as a scholar and a collaborator with Italian neo-Nazis.
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/ledeen_michael

Babak Makkinejad

In reference to all those young people tanning themselves on campus - one sometime heard the question: "Have you noticed the increased incidence of red lobster around?".

David Habakkuk

different clue,

Uri Avnery is Helmut Osterman, a 'yekke' – the derogatory Israeli term for German Jews.

A tension between tribal and more general loyalties runs through many of us. Part of the tragedy of German Jews lay quite precisely in the fact that the assimilationist urge was so strong. When the 'goyim' in Germany retreated into a savage tribalism, it was immensely difficult for Jews who had identified with that country, its language, and its culture, to cope.

In the case of Osterman/Avnery, the response was a kind of romantic Zionism. As is very evident in his recent writings – see for example the essay he published last month entitled 'Sheldon's Stooges: Netanyahu and the King of Vegas' – the retreat of Israelis, and also so many American Jews, into tribalism provokes in him something between despair and a kind of gallows humour. An excerpt:

'Far from creating a New Jew as Zionism promised, the Old Jew dominates Israel. The Old Jew believes that the entire world is anti-Semitic, and any new evidence fills him with satisfaction. You see? The Goyim haven't changed at all.'

And then, have a look at the exchanges between Ari Shavit, at heart a ghetto Jew, and Avraham Burg, another 'yekke', back in 2007.

(See http://peacepalestine.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/complete-abraham-burg-
interview-leaving.html .)

Or indeed, the exchanges between Shavit and Amos Elon, another 'yekke', back in 2004.

(See http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/12/27/an-interview-with-amos-elon/ .)

For Jews who do not think that the appropriate response to Hitler is to retreat back into the ghetto, Israel has been becoming a dead end. And this is not simply a matter of ethnic origin – it is not difficult to find Polish Jewish refugees in Britain and the descendants of such refugees who find the directions that Zionism has taken utterly abhorrent.

A tragedy is that the ghetto mentality of Israelis appears to have had a suffocating effect on Jewish life in the United States.

Bryn P

With regard to Northern Ireland it is my undersanding that towards the end the IRA were thoroughly infiltrated by the security forces. The Troubles had gone on long enough for this to have happened and no doubt it would have been far easier to do so given the similarities of race and culture between the combatants. This is not to claim that the war was won. It was unwinnable by either side. Certainly from the UK authorities' point of view their options were greatly limited by potential condemnation by the US. The war had reached a stalemate and the final agreement was as good as it was going to get.

As has been mentioned earlier financial support from the Irish in the States went a long way to prolong the struggle. It always surprises me that these supporters were not just Irish-Catholics, but in many instances Irish-Protestants. One would have expected the latter to be on the other side.

Amir

I know of lots of mosques in Belgium, that were funded by SA. It sounds simplistic but a cheap way to find who is influencing and probably financing the "place of worship", is to request a copy of the publications that they provide. No need for invasive police tactics here.
The situation in Belgium was very worrisome prior the decision of the state to fund the mosques themselves and recognize Islam as a religion. The latter curtailed some but not all the SA influence: http://www.cie.ugent.be/RUG/kanmaz3.htm

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