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17 July 2015

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turcopolier

PB

Great work! Thanks. The Kuwaiti mother thing is interesting. Typically Palestinians who have emigrated to other Arab countries with Jordanian passports/citizenship marry Palestinian women. They lack the local connections to do otherwise. pl

William R. Cumming

Thanks for another excellent analysis! Wondering if he had dual citizenship?

DC

Patrick, this killer was a nut. He fits under the umbrella of a small percentage of nuts in any given population that employ a cause as justification for violently expressing themselves. In order to convince me of your argument -- at least, I think this is your argument -- that Muslims in American are inherently prone to more violence than any other sub-population or group that adheres to whatever ideology or belief-set you care to come up with -- then you would have to present data showing that Muslims as a group in America are inherently more prone to violence than, say, Christians. But it would be even more enlightening if we had data concerning the percentage of violent offenders in, for example, U.S. Salafist or white supremacist or black supremacist or even antiabortionist (not "pro-life" if you get the difference) groups. I would speculate the beliefs of those groups would show to be inherently more prone to violence because...they are extremist.

Then compare the data to ultraviolent offenders in Europe, and see what you get. I'm not so sure that the Islamic religion generally, as a whole, gets you anywhere as an explanation for such violence there, either.

Patrick Bahzad

Agree that the "mixed" mariage is not the norm for Palestinian refugees in Arab countries. My guess is, Gulf War I and the fact Kuwait expelled all Palestinians from their country afterwards (Arafat had sided with Saddam in the war), may have created a family environment that wasn't too healthy for the kids at home ... Pure speculation on my part, but wouldn't be surprized if there had been some serious tensions between the father and the mother.

Couldn't get more into detail at such short notice, although there are a number of other things that did strike me as interesting/odd in the CV of the shooter.

Also wonder whether the Al Qaeda connection is not the more likely one, despite recent ISIS hype. I guess the investigators will provide answers, unless one organisation or the other claims responsibility and publishes of posthumous video "testament" of the attacker.

In any case, it should be a wake up call for all those who couldn't see past the alleged Russian, Chinese and Iranian threat to the US homeland !

Matthew

PB: "Quite possibly, a recent DUI charge filed against him was the final straw in a process that had started long before."

From all reports he was not a loner, was popular at school, etc. Hence, all the clichéd explanations for his murders are unsatisfactory.

"There's lots of work to do for the investigators, but what this case shows already, is that the profiling of potential security threats is not an easy task."

Short of investigating anyone who researches these Jihadi websites, what in the world can the government do?

Patrick Bahzad

You're putting words in my mouth. My contention is not the argument you're making. Besides, I don't do social sciences. If numbers is the only thing you believe in, better look somewhere else.

If the guy was just a nut job, why kill four US Marines in particular ? Why drive to a military recruitment centre ? Why not go to his local mall and start spraying bullets into the crowd ?

you're entitled to believe what you like. Personally, I don't really care. What is important to me, is that we ask ourselves the right questions so we can take the appropriate measures.

For future reference, I'd rather you don't distort the points I'm making, specifically don't say I'm making a case against Islam. Keep that in mind, and no lessons in political correctness here, thx !

Matthew

DC: How did you determine that he is a nut? Because he committed multiple murders? The belief that every act of violence is "irrational" is itself irrational.

We know that only a small minority of Muslims are violent. And only a few Caucasians are Violent Extremists....but we need to figure out why this minority is willing to commit mass murder whether in Chattanooga or Charleston.

Babak Makkinejad

Another Sunni Muslim terrorist originating from outside of the borders of former Seljuk Empire; why am I not surprised.

Unless we acknowledge that we are in a multi-religious war and thus name things correctly we cannot hope to restore order.

Fred

DC,

Let me get this right:
Muslim shooter in Chattanooga is a "Nut". Please provide statistical evidence ......;
White shooter in Charleston is not a nut or a drug addict, no statistical evidence required to declare him a "White Supremacist".

Fred

PB,

Very interesting points. I think the general public here is definitely in the dark about many of the points you make.

cville reader

Presumably that would depend on the results of the investigation.

One common denominator in Islamic inspired violence in the US appears to be the role of certain imams in certain mosques. That the NYPD was surveilling local mosques would seem to confirm this.

One useful distinction -- one that PB pointed out -- is that in the US, the Muslim population is primarily the result of recent immigration. So the question becomes -- should we reconsider our immigration policies from countries that are known trouble spots for islamic radicalization? And to what extent should the building of new mosques around the country be a concern?

FYI, this is not the first time that I have seen some posters here try to make the comparison between violent "antiabortionists", white supremacists and foreign inspired terrorists. Implicit in this kind of reasoning is that the US has no national identity, and that we as a people, are not entitled to define what is foreign to us.

My guess is that most Americans have no problem doing so, as can be seen by the surging popularity of Donald Trump.

As for "antiabortionists" and white supremacists, they are homegrown problems that are the result of historical circumstances unique to the US. Most Americans are keenly aware of the motivations for that kind of violence.

There is nothing wrong with the impulse that seeks to prevent additional sources of civil strife.


cville reader

"Unless we acknowledge that we are in a multi-religious war and thus name things correctly we cannot hope to restore order."

The people who refuse to see that the Supreme Court's "gay marriage" ruling has the potential to compromise other citizens' right to free exercise of religion, are the same ones who refuse to acknowledge the religious dimensions of Islamic terrorism.

That is because they fundamentally reject the concept of the religious impulse, and think of it merely as a hobby to be practiced outside of the public realm.

Tyler

DC,

Yeah, I'm sure you believe Dylan Sprouse was a nut as well.

Liberal rationalization hamster in action.

Tyler

PB,

When you talk about blindness, you hit it on the head with the way this country works. Pointing out Muslim terrorism is a "thing" will make you a pariah among the Borg/Cathedral types. You only have to look at Obama running to the Crusades (a defensive war) or the Inquisition (an in house cleansing) to see the kind of moral relativism the Left routinely engages in. This is what informs the "privilege theory" that is so in vogue over there.

How many of us heard of this last year?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/highway-shooting-cases-rise-20-kansas-city-police/story?id=23279434

Maybe because the shooter was a Muslim convert.

http://pamelageller.com/2014/04/muslim-arrested-kansas-city-highway-sniper-shootings-charged-wth-18-counts-20-shootings.html/

Just another example of the Borg/Cathedral to silence anything that goes against the Narrative.

Patrick Bahzad

Matthew,

I think being popular at high school doesn't mean anything. He may have been the poster boy of his hometown and still have real issues. Have you read his statement in his high school year book ? Do you know what his family background is and what he has experienced there ? No you don't and you don't seem to realize that one can hold extremist views and still look perfectly normal for a number of years !

Tyler

America: So awful for Muslims they keep on immigrating here to be treated awfully.

Patrick Bahzad

Tyler,

I'm afraid what you're referring to is a pretty widespread affliction in the West. Trying to put a name on things is not gonna win you a popularity contest in France either. Things are changing here now because people are more aware that things have gone wrong for too long and that we can't go on like this.

Will Reks

Patrick,

We have nothing to gain by not calling a spade a spade so I'm in agreement. What realistic policies should we adopt in the West to stop things from going on like this?

Its interesting to compare the reaction over mass shootings in general on the part of some on this blog to the reaction to events involving Islamic terrorism. There is quite a difference.

Will Reks

I think this is quite a broad generalization. Spin this however you want.

http://www.pewresearch.org/2007/05/22/muslim-americans-middle-class-and-mostly-mainstream/

http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/a-portrait-of-muslim-americans/

Matthew

PB: why do you think we disagree? The cliche I was referring to was poverty. This case shows that this man made a personal choice. I just want to know why. I'm not asserting anything to diminish his individual responsibility for these murders.

DC

Honestly, Patrick, I could not discern from your narrative exactly who or what you believe the threat to be. As an outside observer/reader, I interpreted "Muslims." I do not in the least disagree that a threat exists and I appreciate your thoughts.

Note: I do believe the SC shooter was likewise a "nut." How anyone could interpret his psychology otherwise is strange, imo. But I am no psychologist.

no one

PB,

According to an USA Today article, he was always deeply religious, but recently diverted to a Jihadist strain of thinking, "But the clean-cut sport fighter was increasingly turning his attention to other things. He maintained an Islam-focused blog that explored the sacrifices Muslims should make in the name of their religion, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which tracks online terrorist activity.

Three days before the shooting, Abdulazeez published a series of posts stating that "life is short and bitter" and that Muslims should not let "the opportunity to submit to allah…pass you by," according to SITE. He also stressed the sacrifice of the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet) with mention that they "fought Jihad for the sake of Allah," according to the group.

"Every one of them had to make sacrifices in their lives and some even left all their wealth to make hijrah (migration) to Medina," Abdulazeez wrote.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/16/chattanooga-shooter-mohammed-abdulazeez-profile/30265707/

Patrick Bahzad

DC,

Maybe I haven't made myself clear enough: the threat is diverse and evolving, with the profiles of "persons of interest" changing over time, which makes the task so difficult. There is no more 'one size fits all' of jihadi terrorists. What needs to be acknowledged though is that all jihadi terrorists are Sunni Muslims. If there is something wrong with saying this, maybe it means there's something wrong with your view of the world, not mine. I know lots of Muslims, many of whom I call friends, some are family. Maybe you're the one who's prejudiced and afraid to appear as such ?

Tyler

Will,

Do I need to preface my comments with sarcasm tags now? There's an article floating around that quotes the shooter's sister about how badly they have it being refugees in America because Americans are so anti-Muslim.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/life/entertainment/story/2010/nov/15/muslim-teens-seek-acceptance-understanding/34453/

Reads like a lot of shit that didn't happen.txt + look at what a victim I am, but that's the mentality these people have.

Tyler

Will Reks,

I agree. There's always a fifth column ready to jump up and defend Islamic terrorism as "oh its just some crazy person" but any hint of a racial shooting and to hell with due process let's burn some mothafuggahs at the stake because raycism.

Good point thank you for bringing this up.

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