« Erdoğan and the Islamic State (FB Ali) | Main | "Just who do we think we are?" Chief Justice Roberts »

26 June 2015

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Marcy

M. Bahzad,

Thank you for the update on this situation, very informative. Now I will spend the rest of the weekend obsessed with nuclear plant safety because if ISIS or AQ can target a gas plant and get inside easily...nope, not feeling safe AT ALL.

DC

France has quite a problem on its hands. Somehow it must further engage its Muslim citizens to enthusiastically cooperate in policing this criminal, insurrectionist activity.

Patrick Bahzad

I would go a step further and say the West has quite a problem on its hands, including and especially the US !

DC

Of course we have always had challenges embracing our immigrants' perspectives, but ours is nothing like France's. We will continue to lead by example by embracing our many traditions. But France? Theirs is only one tradition, and that is To Be French. Their laws are designed to encourage French-ness, whereas our laws are designed, in very large part, to encourage civil behavior. Quite a big difference.

Patrick Bahzad

I'm not arguing about challenges immigrants face in France or in the US, that is a different matter. I'm talking about the terror threat in the West in general.

And in that regard, make no mistake, the US are on top of these criminals' list ... Unfortunately, contrary to what you seem to think, there's quite a large pool of potential recruits in the Us for this kind of sh*t.

You're dangerously underestimating the level of the threat your country is facing. US police and intel isn't though and that is what counts.

Will Reks

I think this is relevant and you are quite right. ISIS/AQ are starting to target/recruit people who have the right placement and access to be able to do some real damage. We in the US have the conceit that people here assimilate much better than in most of the rest of the West. This is broadly true, in my opinion, but far from absolute.

DC

I respect what you are saying sir, and agree in part, but I do not think it is wise to construe the threat as monumental as "The West" vs. [what?]. I think it is more appropriate to assess the threat levels differently, based on the different societies under attack. French "socio-culture" (for lack of a better term) is more weak than U.S. socio-culture, for example, as a basis for insurrectionist attack like the one today. Similarly, Turkish socio-culture is different from Bedouin Arab culture. To some degree, it makes sense to mentally strip religion from the analysis and look at the turmoil going on within each respective landscape, then add religion back in to see if it exacerbates the situation to such a degree than some humans are willing to sign themselves up to die for the insurrectionist cause rather than merely put their lives at risk while fighting for change. Again, for example, I don't think that latter reality is nearly as true here in the U.S. as it is in France. We've got kooks doing crazy sh*t here, whereas I do not get the impression the French onslaught of killers are what we would call mentally disturbed. Although religious fervor is very similar to Crazy, imo.

Abu Sinan

The last attack in Paris went back to AQAP in Yemen. It is possible this one could as well. AQAP is Yemen has grown and has resources and land it did not have before due to KSA bombing. AQAP in Iraq are about the only winners in Yemen so far.

Medicine Man

An open question: What are the problems associated with identifying and prosecuting/deporting people prosletizing certain radical Salafi views, such as the people who presumably helped radicalize Salhi? Obviously this notion presents a real problem with regards to civil liberties, but how far are we required to tolerate people's views when they are intentionally inciting others to violence?

Patrick Bahzad

DC,

I understand where you coming from with this feeling that France is more at risk than the U.S. obviously, we have a larger share of population that is Muslim and has trouble finding its place in French society, for whatever reasons.
However, I think you're really underestimating the threat potential there is in the U.S. itself, believe me, I know both our countries and I know what I'm talking about. If I gave you a list of all the "western" islamic terrorists who have been caught, you would be amazed at the number of American citizens among them. again it's not about being paranoid or not going out our door anymore but having a realistic idea about the threat level, which is not to say something is gonna happen, that's the problem. You may think it's all good but as they used to say "remember the Alamo" now it's "remember 9/11" !

DC

If they are not citizens, then they do not have citizens' rights -- so most countries would have less of a legal barrier to deporting them, I think. To dot that, they would have to pass a new law making clear that risk to state security is more important than human rights laws. If they ARE citizens, then clearly you have a problem and a new law would have to be passed that abridges freedom of speech to the degree that some speech is criminalized. The U.S., at least, would have a problem with that one. More realistically, the U.S. will have to continue what it is doing -- monitoring suspects and getting warrants to do so -- and arrest the insurrectionists/criminals at the cusp of doing anything that would harm human life.

rjj

This is not even at the top of the news at Google. Did my daily calamity check but had no idea anything had taken place. What are CorpsMedia doing with it. Is it getting more or less air time than Supremes on gay marriage?

Could DC be winding PB up - IOW testing? testing? testing?

rjj

"the driver crashed his van into a gas tank ... Although the crash caused an explosion of the gas tank (filled with oxygen), only two people were injured. The driver of the van then tried to ignite the oxygen tank but was knocked-out by a fireman who had rushed to the scene. He was immediately turned over to French Gendarmerie and taken into custody."

Impressive rapid response. Where is closest fire department?

Patrick Bahzad

A chemical plant like the one that was attacked has its own fire brigade in house.

Valissa

Some greater agenda seems to be at work here...

Attacks hit three continents amid fears of escalating Islamist violence http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/attacks-hit-three-continents-amid-fears-of-escalating-islamist-violence/2015/06/26/c3a76c90-1c08-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html

Militants beheaded, bombed and gunned down victims on three continents on Friday, killing more than 60 people and raising fears that a global surge of terror strikes could be imminent.

There was no immediate reason to believe that the disparate attacks — at a factory in France, a beach resort in Tunisia and a mosque in Kuwait — were connected.

But the three incidents followed an appeal on Tuesday from the Islamic State’s spokesman, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, for Muslims to mark the holy month of Ramadan by carrying out acts of “jihad,” or holy war.

rjj

You had said it was very small operation so I assumed it would not have an in-house brigade sitting around waiting waiting waiting - was thinking dedicated staff tho. Would make sense to have someone performing that duty as part of security. OKAY. THANK YOU!!!!

Patrick Bahzad

In house brigade is required by law for that kind of site. Was probably just 3-4 men from local fire brigade being sent in on daily basis.

crf

I wouldn't worry. Different levels of security. And is hard to see a small bomb leading to a catastrophic accident. Reactors are fairly passively safe.

crf

Who's responsible? It's not so much a who, it's a what. The past particulars of the people who carry out these attacks are not very notable: perhaps some criminality, perhaps some sympathy for jihadist sentiment. When the perpetrator's past is examined, in hindsight there may be the appearance that if only some authority had followed up some path that led to the attack, it might not have happened. I am only guessing, but I wouldn't be surprised if there may be 10000 people in France that could be fitted up.

What is responsible? Infectious militant Islamism. I don't think it is an accident that Infectious militant Islamism is breaking out in Europe at the same time as the ongoing European recession/depression while states are turning their backs on strengthening their secular societies.

Patrick Bahzad

That is all well and good - and very debatable - but I'm not arguing this from a ethnological sociological point of view, I'm not an academic.
Thx for the insights into terrorist profiles, sounds like you're a genuine expert.

Amir

I insist that the problem is self made: Mr. Sarkopoleon and Bernard Henri Levi, did not serve the interests of France nor Europe, by attacking Libya, killing Khaddhafi and setting up a weapons pipeline from there to Syria.

I guess they say "what you sow, you will reap". They supported Polygamist-Feminists in Libya and Liver-Eaters in Syria, they are reaping Jihad in Saint Tropez. Bashar told you so.

As long as the premium is paid by others, they bet on the stock of our collective security and support both sides, while speeding their tentacles with widdening conflicts.

Patrick Bahzad

Are you justifying a heinous terrorist act ? It oddly sounds so .. Better be careful now what you say on here. It's a crime to condone terrorism and plenty of people found themselves prosecuted for it. Besides what you say is BS, we've been targeted by Islamist terrorism way before 2011. These criminals always find a reason to justify what can't be justified. I don't bother about the what if and what if not scenarios. End of story.

Valissa

Patrick, much as I love your posts and comments in general, I think you are being a bit harsh here. Numerous articles have been written about the "blowback" from various US and NATO policies.

As far as I can tell, even policy choices that seem "right" at the time can generate unexpected and negative consequences. Observing that blowback occurs and pointing backwards at decisions made can hardly be seen as condoning terrorism,

Blowback and the Consequences of Obama's Foreign Policies http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/blowback-and-the-consequences-of-obamas-foreign-policies/258020/

AEL

A look at the raw numbers suggests that fixing up obvious tripping hazards on stairways would be a higher societal priority than Middle Eastern terrorists operating in the West. 30,000 (mostly elderly) people in the USA died from unintentional falls in 2013 according to the CDC.

Patrick Bahzad

Well valissa, there are people who also argued about 9/11 that the U.S. had it coming. Still think I'm being harsh ?

We can't let our actions be dictated by people who are going to use any excuse they can find to justify their hate against the west.

Of course it doesn't mean we should do stupid things or ignore the consequences of our policies. Blowback is one thing but as far as Im concerned, Im not sure what blowback France should be experiencing for what it did. If you elaborate maybe I can give you a clearer answer. But don't mention Libya please, because in libya we actually Helped the Islamists oust gaddafi !

people who always quibble about western responsibility for everything that's wrong in the world are playing right into the terrorists' hands because they are ideologically bolstering the jihadis' case for attacking us on whatever pretense.

there's a war going on and in a war you don't pick up the enemy's narrative and defend it against your own people.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

May 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            
Blog powered by Typepad