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28 June 2015

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Tyler

Hey Sidney, your forefathers described as traitors now. Maybe we should all just agree with the coastal elites about how mean they were so no one has any hurt feelings, by your logic.

William Fitzgerald

Pat Lang,

The anti confederate history hysteria is spreading like the plague. The craven idiots comprising The Citadel's Board of Visitors voted to have the Confederate naval ensign removed from the Summerall Chapel. The next step will probably be to strip the battle streamers from the colors. I'm appalled.

WPFIII

turcopolier

William Fitzgerald

I will be pleasantly surprised if something similar does not occur at VMI where the Borg and the Walmart managers seem to be in charge. pl

ex-PFC Chuck

The dictum for which Lord Acton is most famously remembered was written as he reflected back upon the First Vatican Council's deliberation over the issue of the pope's infallibility, a political struggle in which he participated. In his view Pope Pius IX and his allies ran roughshod over the long-established Canon Law procedures to push the doctrine through. Here, from Wikipedia, is the quote in broader context. This, too, is pertinent to yesterday's post and discussion about the US Supreme Court.

" . . I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dalberg-Acton,_1st_Baron_Acton

Lars

The good news is that the past is being discussed. The bad news is that it is entirely fueled by emotion at the present. There should not be any doubt that the flag in question has become a very negative symbol.

Once the hyperbole has receded, maybe a more intelligent discussion will ensue. We may even learn something from it. Let's just start with the nation's capital will not be renamed, nor will the Declaration of Independence be rescinded because of once upon a time some founders owned slaves.

And Lee's estate was turned into an important monument.

turcopolier

Lars

Arlington was his wife's estate, not his. pl

rjj

could not find the words. Patrick Buchanan did: "cultural lynch mob"

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/the-confederate-flag-doesnt-belong-to-dylann-roof/

what's next? books?

rjj

Let's just start with the nation's capital will not be renamed,

Renaming campaign! perfect contrademagogy.

rjj

What is the board of visitors. That should alienate and ACTIVATE a huge constituency, no?

Lars

Sorry. I have been misinformed. It was still confiscated.

turcopolier

Lars

Lee tried after the war to get compensation for his wife's property. After all she had lost it because of him. He did not succeed in spite of a frosty but polite talk with grant at the WH. you can see some her dinner war on display in the Diplomatic Rooms of the State Department. Loot. pl

turcopolier

rjj

"Board of Visitors" Regents, Trustees pl

Lars

If you want to see loot, visit the Historical Museum in Stockholm. I had to explain to my wife that there were no receipts for any of it.

The property was put to good use and gratefully there won't be any high rise condos there.

Jose

I voted for Romney, my conscious is clear. America deserves what it is getting and what is about to get when "they" go after the churches".

FYI, Lee is as American as Apple Pie:

http://burnpit.legion.org/2011/08/president-ford-restores-robert-e-lees-citizenship-after-100-years

Sosmith3

Tyler
Not sure you read my essay. Nonetheless...again...if you will do the following, I will take a much closer look. And again, I am doing this out of respect because I think your insights can contribute to some of these raging debates.

1. Write a 2000 word essay about your experiences growing up with your parents.

2. The contradiction, if any, between your feelings for your parents and your extremely, extremely researched beliefs about same.

3.How you resolve that contradiction, if any,and how the Catholic church should approach it.

4.Write under your own name.

5.About a dozen or so photos of you with your family growing up.

Then...I will applaud you for your courage. I am all but certain it would get published and would help people in their "discernment".

Fred

Col.,

Here's one to listen too before the left gets it banned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvIU6VQAWpo

Stephanie

Col. and Lars,

Lee was probably thinking even more of the rights of his eldest son. Mary had a life interest in the property under the terms of her father's will but it was intended ultimately for Custis and without it he had no legacy from his grandfather and no land. Custis did end by suing the government, successfully claiming that the confiscation of Arlington was illegal, and the estate was "returned" to him. Obviously he couldn't do much with a burial ground and so he sold it back to the government.

Quartermaster General Montgomery Meigs ordered that bodies should be buried as close to the house as possible, so the Lees could never occupy it again. In fact he dug up some of those already in the ground to bury them nearer to the house.

Mary Lee might have been able to keep more of her belongings if she had faced the necessity of abandoning Arlington earlier, but she could not bear to leave and so ended up rushing her departure and having to leave much of value behind, including many mementoes of Washington. Meigs got his wish - the family never recovered emotionally from the blow of losing Arlington.

Speaking of bodies being dug up, the mayor of Memphis wants to move those of Nathan Bedford and Mary Ann Forrest.

Tyler

SOS,

Sorry bro, but in between being a fed, an author with deadlines, a father, apiarist/rancher, training as a light heavyweight boxer and all around BAMF I don't have time for rhetorical pissing matches in anything but in an off the cuff fashion.

You'll just have to accept my answer that they have to sort it out with God when they arrive to see him.

I read your essay, for what its worth. Its well written, but rhetorical and emotional in its appeal, and doesn't address the reality of the other side that they want you to grovel and will never budge an inch on their beliefs while expecting you to renounce yours. Rules for Radicals 101 from top to bottom.

scott s.

Pursuant to the Act of 1862 and amended in 1863, imposing a direct tax on property within areas in insurrection, Arlington Estate was assessed a direct tax of $92.07. Per rule the tax commissioners in Alexandria County (which formed current Arlington and Alexandria City) would only accept payment in person. By GWP Custis' will, Mary Custis Lee had a life estate in Arlington with her (and REL's) son George Washington Custis Lee the remainderman. Since Mary Lee did not make payment in person, the estate was sold for taxes at auction in 1864, title going to the United States and sale price of $26,800.

After the war a number of suits were brought challenging title to land obtained in this manner starting with Bennett v. Hunter decided by the USSC in 1869 which laid down the principle that requiring payment in person was incorrect and title obtained in a subsequent tax sale was invalid. It should be noted that Salmon Chase, who had been Secy of the Treasury at that time, had subsequent to the death of Justice Taney been appointed as Chief Justice of the USSC, so his
views were no doubt critical in the findings of the court.

George Washington Custis Lee sued in Alexandria County Circuit Court for title to Arlington in 1872 and eventually the case made it to the USSC where it was decided in favor of Lee in 1882, consistent with the prior cases heard by that court. Lee's title by succession was deemed valid and he sold Arlington to the US in 1883 for $150,000.

United States v. Lee 106 U.S. 196 (1882)

Stephanie

scott s.,

Adding to the foregoing that Mrs. Lee, trapped in Richmond and confined to a wheelchair, sent a relative with the money to make the payment, which the commissioners refused to accept. There was only one bid at the subsequent auction, the one from the government, and the sale price was well under market value.

Custis Lee sued originally in circuit court but the Attorney General got the case moved to federal court on the assumption, probably correct, that the government would face a certain amount of bias in the circuit court. The federal judge, a Grant appointee, ordered a jury trial, which Lee won. The government then appealed to the Supreme Court, where Lee won again.

After her husband's death, Mrs. Lee appealed directly to Congress. Her petition, which included a tactless reference to the cost of clearing out the bodies, was soundly defeated. Had the General been alive I'm sure he would have talked her out of it.

Seamus Padraig

Personally, I would not consider 'treason' against a "vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home" to be any mark of dishonor. Having had no ancestors in the country during the Civil War, I am not personally strongly attached to Confederate battle standard, but this whole thing seems to reaching ridiculous proportions. Even the Dukes of Hazard's "Gen. Lee" is to be disappeared, as though that silly show had had anything to do with slavery or segregation. This is like the early days of the Soviet Union, when they were constantly trying to airbrush history. Truly frightening...

Tyler

SOS,

Here is where "We must remove the flag because Unhurt Feelings" leads:

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/memphis-mayor-wants-to-dig-up-dead-confederate-war-general.html

You are trying to reason with insane people.

Phil Cattar

I grew up in the South of the 40s and 50s.I used to hear many Northerners say that the people in the South were still fighting the war.I assumed all these years that most Northerners thought and cared little about The War of Northern Aggression.I was certainly mistaken about that.It seems a lot of Northerners are still fighting the war in 2015......................BTW my great grandfather was captured at Gettysburg.He and two of his brothers and various other relatives all fought for the South.This is on my mother's side...............Andrews,Dowling and Forsyte

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