How did he get the gun?

Dylan Roof, 21, of Lexington SC, evidently a high school drop-out, has confessed to the murders of nine people who had welcomed him into their midst and into a Bible study group in their church's basement in Charleston, SC.  Roof sat with them for an hour and then produced a pistol, a Glock Model 21, .45 ACP semi-automatic with which he shot to death six women and three men, sparing one after telling her that she would live to recount what he had done.

There are various questions raised in the media concerning mental health, Southern culture, gun sales, etc.  Roof was from a little town 1oo miles away.  He traveled to Charleston to do this.

- This weapon costs at least $500.  Who paid for that?  He was evidently unemployed and not living in his parents home. 

- One account of how he got the gun describes the acquisition as a birthday gift from his father.  This young man had nothing about him to recommend to a parent the gift of a large caliber pistol.  If that is what happened then a case is strengthened for required federal and state background checks for private transfer of firearms including between family members. 

- According to a second version of the acquisition, Roof bought the pistol himself with birthday gift money.  In this version of the story he bought the pistol from a gun dealer in Charleston.  In that case the dealer would have had a Federal Firearms License and a federal background check would have been required.  Roof does not seem to have had a record of treated mental health problems.   He had been convicted of a trespass misdemeanor and was awaiting trial for felony possession of illegal drugs.  The federal firearms transfer check should have picked up the pending felony trial and blocked the sale.  I don't know what SC law is on this.  In Virginia the transfer would have been illegal and picked up in the additional state check.  If Roof's purchase of this pistol was not blocked by the background check then the efficacy of such checks is questionable.

Possession of a firearm is an individual constitutional right in the US.  The federal courts including SCOTUS have repeatedly supported that right although allowing "reasonable" restrictions on the right.  These restrictions include background checks, but are background checks really effective blocks to possession of firearms by criminals or the mentally ill?

If the answer is "no," then some solution must be found for the obvious problem we have in the use of firearms for crimes like the one in Charleston.

Politicians will, of course, demagogue the issue and the media will chatter stupidly but Obama is right in saying we must find some solution to this problem.

I am a Lifetime member of the  NRA.  I own a lot of guns and intend to keep them and keep shooting them, but this problem should be dealt with.  pl

Comments

[Tyler]

The church was a "no firearms zone". Make of that what you will.

Roof was apparently on a narcotics agitator that is responsible for psychotic behavior.

I don't know if more laws will do anything - how many have died in Chicago and Baltimore so far this year, two cities with onerous gun restrictions.

[Babak Makkinejad]

That is what I have been saying; the Drug Culture is wreaking havoc when it meets high testosterone concentrations.

And they want to legalize drugs - all the time sticking their heads in the sand.

[r whitman]

The current dilemma in this country can only be "solved" with the active participation of the NRA. Politicians, especially on the left should seek accommodation with the NRA instead of considering them the enemy. The NRA should acknowledge that there is a problem and come up with practical, enforceable solutions (if they exist).

[Tyler]

Babak,

That dude does not look "high test" IMHO, but otherwise yes I agree on the basis of pharmacological reactions and the fact the last thing Americans need is another shiny object to distract them.

[oofda]

The pending felony on drug charges should indeed have stopped the sale- if indeed that version is correct of how he obtained the weapon. If South Carolina laws wouldn't have covered that, they should be changed.
It will be interesting to see just how the young man obtained the weapon and how the checks were conducted, if they were. From that, a lot of thought should be put into finding a solution to situations like this.

[Will Reks]

"how many have died in Chicago and Baltimore"

Honestly? Probably not enough. It's not so bad, other than the politics, if it was just the gangs killing each other off. No amount of gun restrictions in a locality will ever work if the supply of guns is steady and access is relatively easy.

[mistah charley, ph.d.]

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[Adam L Silverman]

This wasn't about drugs. His online presence made it very clear that he was into neo-Confederate ideology. The wearing of the apartheid South African and Rhodesian flags is a visual signal used by white supremacists and neo-Confederates that one is a fellow traveler. The idea being that those that aren't won't have a clue what those flags are. Then there's the license plate with the Confederate battle flag or naval ensign on it (couldn't tell from the pictures I've seen if it's the square/the former or rectangular/the latter). His statement to the survivor he purposely left alive to tell everyone what he did was clearly based on both anti-Black racism and the desire to have the message spread by first person survivor recollection to instill further terror. His erstwhile roommate and his sort of friend/gaming buddy have reinforced the neo-Confederate ideology component and the interest in acting on those believes. The the roommate even took the gun away for a while, but gave it back because it would violate his parole. Roof's uncle has also confirmed the ideological attachment and the fascination with the gun and apparently tried to talk reason to him. I'll pull and post the federal code defining terrorism. Roof's actions fit squarely within the legal definition. The issue of reasonable regulation that COL Lang brought up, while important, is only one piece of this. The other is that something ugly, that most of us thought had been pushed to the margins/extremes in the U.S. has been slowly bubbling back up to the surface over the past fifteen to twenty years. There have been several attacks - not plans, not got an informant to get you to talk about it to an FBI agent, but actual attacks on churches, synagogues, and mosques over the past decade or so. In every one the perpetrators were white, ostensibly Christian (ostensibly as that's where they see themselves even if most Christians wouldn't), and holding some combination of white supremacist, anti-government, neo-Confederate, and anti-abortion (distinction here with pro-life: the distinction is that folks with pro-life views using appropriate and legal means to achieve their objectives, while the anti-abortion folks use violence, intimidation, and terrorism) beliefs. There have been numerous attacks on local, state, and federal law enforcement and even more threats and acts of intimidation. This is a separate problem from non-ideological mass murder attempts, which is what mass shootings really are - even if the means, firearms, are a common across the events. While the question of reasonable regulation will apply to both, the former problem is going to be far, far harder to tackle. Hate is learned and it's hard to unlearn. And there's far too many people in the U.S. making good money off of exploiting people's fears, insecurities, and hardships by telling them who to blame. It's corrosive - to our society and to the notion of self government. And it is going to be a far bigger and harder problem to grapple with then the issue of what is or isn't a reasonable regulation of firearms and other weapons and what are the best and least obtrusive ways to achieve them.

[turcopolier]

All

Evidently Roof lived in Eastover, SC, a little Black town (90%), grew up in Gaston, SC a little White town nearby (95%) and went to high school with Blacks some of whom are described as "friends."

In re Adam Silverman's diagnosis, this sounds a lot like media and Black activist language (often coded) that basically wishes to regulate thought. One must ask what it is that Blacks and their advocates wish to see enacted into law so that they will feel more accepted and safe. Don't tell me they do not want legislation. The fact that they do both at the state level and in DC is all over the TV. It is sad that Charleston's mass inter-racial grief seems to have no effect on those who want to use this for political purposes.

In re Babak and Tyler's diagnosis of chemically connected causes, I find it interesting that; this fellow does not have a job, he has a car, he has an expensive new pistol, he is living with "roommates," (somebody pays the rent) and he looks like a sissy with a dumb haircut. Would it be surprising to learn that he us a drug dealer (and user) and has been for a long time?

pl

[Fred]

Tyler,

"...how many have died in Chicago and Baltimore so far this year..."

Those are not the Black Lives (that) Matter to the politically driven media.

[PirateLaddie]

Dr. Silverman -- The boy (note his photo) hoped to trigger a race war. This is a recurring motif, either by individuals or by groups. It's interesting, isn't it, that these are invariably the action of a White dude (or group acts, like the KKK and various "race riots" 100-150 years ago) against Black or Brown folks.
I've long believed that several clans within the White tribe have a higher incidence of batshit crazy (and I mean clinical psychosis and pathological social relations, like the folks running Wall Street and the banks) than our kinfolk who remained in "the old country" (whichever one you chose). This goes a long way to explaining the whole "Lost Cause, Regained" and "...from my cold, dead hand" rhetoric.
Here in Texas, we're moving towards a conflict between "open carry" purists and believers in property rights -- which trumps? My coming into your store with a hogs leg on my hip, or you deciding that you don't want armed crazies spending their $$ at your establishment?
It would be great if a degree of self-awareness would overpower the self-deception that's keeping most 'Muricans from rising up on their hind legs & addressing the fundamental issues that have cursed this land for a generation. Don't hold your breath.

[turcopolier]

Pirate Laddie and Gulf Coast Pirate

You both are in Texas and have similar views. Do you know each other? pl

[BostonB]

Yeah, I agree with Col. Lang's take on this. Guns, Second Amendment, social ills, et al., has nothing to do with this. Roof was a disaffected and dysfunctional punk who channeled his displeasure with his life into virulent racist thoughts. If his parents were Muslim immigrants he would have just joined ISIS. Some people are just bad and incorrigible. Some people are allowed to developed into screwed up and destructive individuals. There is no replacing a solid moral foundation in character education. I know this is often said in a facile way by superficial people, but it's true. Inculcating good moral principles affects the mind and the soul, and hence actions (What you think about you do; what you do you become). Even introducing maxims into someone's mind is extremely beneficial to the soul. Pythagoras and the Stoics realized this. In those down moments, and even crisis points, maxims can bolster us up, and that itself helps us to grow in virtue. The case of James Stockdale comes to mind. Adm. Stockdale would recall the words of Stoic philosopher Epictetus and it got him through seven brutal years in the Hanoi Hilton.

[Tyler]

PirateLaddie,

Sup GCP. You shaved your head yet and got a tan?

LOL yeah okay let's talk about property rights. Try deciding that you don't want to do business with a certain party and see what happens.

Freedom of Association has been dead since the Civil Rights Act.

Unsurprised that this is getting so much traction when the reality is that the overwhelming amount of interracial violence is black on white. Just more fantasy from the "Bruce Jenner is a Woman!" crowd.

[Tyler]

I know that since Norway has a lockdown on personally owned firearms and as does France, they have never had a mass shooting incident ever.

[John]

Another great win for Richard Nixon and the Republican party's Southern Strategy. Promote the racism of the white trash confederates and get them to stomp on the blacks...just to win votes.

Here's the wonderful Republican strategist Lee Atwater on it, well before his deathbed repentance:

"The late, legendarily brutal campaign consultant Lee Atwater explains how Republicans can win the vote of racists without sounding racist themselves:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

Just another day on the Republican payroll.

You can listen to the South Carolinian Atwater's interview from which this quote is taken at the following link: http://www.thenation.com/article/170841/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy

You need this kind of sociopathy first and then you can get the guns pointed in any direction you want.

[deanosaur]

I don't know if this clown is a drug dealer, a white supremacist, or a deluded psychopath. I've no clue where he got the gun or how he paid his rent. I frankly don't care whether some of his friends are (were) black. His haircut seems far less relevant to me than words and deeds.

Far be from from me to regulate anyone's thought, but dude walked into a church, mulled it over a bit, and then murdered 9 nine black strangers. Its pretty much the definition of a racial attack. His head full of race hate came from somewhere. At this stage of the game, that's as relevant a question as "who paid the rent?".

[Babak Makkinejad]

The countries of the New World seem to be more violent than sedate Europe; US, Mexico, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Venezuela and now Argentina.

It could also be that deranged European dope-heads do not have access to firearms.

A drug-deranged Crown Prince in Nepal annihilated the Nepalese Royal Family with an AK-47.

"This is your brain of drugs...."

[Fred]

Adam,

So everyone that owns a copy of Lynard Skynard’s Greatest Hits is a racist neoconfederate, since it does have the Confederate battle flag on the cover? Please explain that to me.

[different clue]

Babak Makkinejad,

Different drugs have different cultures. Could you be more specific about which drug and its culture you are talking about?

[cville reader]

Is identifying an "ideological" motivation really what is important here? It would seem that what would be more relevant would be whether there was any degree of underlying organization or support involved.

Right now, Roof looks to be a typical disaffected male youth, of the Southern variety. How is he so different from James Holmes? They both appear to be evil to me.

And a lot of folks are going to disagree about which direction most hatemongering is coming from.

[Patrick Bahzad]

Tyler,

It's true we've never had a mass shooting incident other than terrorism related but it is not due to lack of firearms ... There are actually 22 million legally owned firearms in France at the moment. I've just come back from firing range where I shot a few magazines on my SIG .. Very relaxing actually :-)

If you look at a map of mass shooting incidents in Europe, you'll see most of them occurred in Northern Europe while almost none in the south or Mediterranean europe ... I find this quite striking given the reputation for peace and quiet in the north and the propensity for physical violence in the south ... But i don't have an explanation

[Will Reks]

There's two separate issues here. We have both high numbers of mass shootings and high numbers of homicides using firearms. Norway and France experience infrequent mass shootings and very low numbers of homicides using firearms in comparison to the U.S. Now the gun control crowd here would like to leverage the hysteria over mass shootings into reducing the number of firearms related homicides by reducing supply.

[PirateLaddie]

Col. Thanks for the clarification on GCP -- I don't think it's a NEW acronym for me, but -- memory being what it is (or was).... Hair's going the way of all flesh, so shaving isn't required -- polishing down the road, maybe. Ditto the tan.

Tyler -- No, I'm not GCP, but you see, don't you, that the whole "open carry" issue is just another piece of kindling on the property rights fire. Keep in mind the preacher man who says "I won't be marrying me no _____!" argument, part of the "I won't sell flowers for a homosexual wedding" and similar rhetoric. How's that different from -- "No guns, please." Freedom of Association may be wounded, but is not dead yet.

Remember, it was the Earps who outlawed guns (not just handguns) within the town limits of Dodge & Tombstone. Things like the 2nd Amendment & other niceties of the Constitution are truly of minimal import when the rubber hits the road (or the hammer hits the primer, if you will).

[Johnny Reims]

If you get away from the Borg’s field of consciousness, you see a lot of amazingly beautiful things happening, yes, in the South, to help people overcome this heartbreaking tragedy. It’s right there, from the second the perp’s uncle notified the police, not to mention the white woman who recognized Roof and risked much to follow him and call the police

The Borg has not gone into high gear yet, and it will. Count on Hollywood spewing forth. But meanwhile, on the edges of the Borg’s awareness, you still see glimpses who what I am talking about. Suffering and compassion transcend race. The following is someone from Charleston, placing his “Boston Strong” t-shirt at a memorial for the victims.

http://tinyurl.com/ohnrgg3

I can’t say with certainty if the following is relevant, but psycho-tropic drugs (prescribed meds) are wreaking havoc on younger people. In many instances, the effect of these drugs open the floodgates to enormously powerful and negative thoughts. The thoughts simply do not shut down and they begin to reinforce each other, ultimately leading to extraordinary evil visions and then acts. These high octane meds have the potential to spawn unspeakable tragedies that play out on multiple levels in all kinds of scenarios. One of Satan’s joys, I guess. Any time you hear of a kid – or anyone for that matter -- blowing his brains out, find out if he was on meds and be thankful he didn’t kill others beforehand.

At first impression, Silverman’s logic appears flawed and geared towards career advancement in the Borg. But, admittedly, I never went for the idea of HTT, which I tend to see as government speak for “Creating the Universal Man.” So I first want to apply his logic to Baruch Goldstein and see what conclusions are drawn. Don’t yet know the answer.