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02 May 2015

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turcopolier

All

I have never found her to be attractive, but then, I have known some really good looking women. pl

Babak Makkinejad

"It is the goat that ought like the grass." as the Persian saying goes.

Or as the French say: "Chacun a son gout."

William R. Cumming

Sorry Richard but on October 17th, 1992, Bill Clinton not yet President and his finger elsewhere than on a trigger.

Richard Sale

Thanks for catching a real stupidity. The year was 1998.

Richard Sale

The year was 1998.

The Beaver

WRC

Me thinks It was October 17 1998, a couple of week before the Iraq Liberation Act and 2 months before Operation Desert Fox ( with the Brits as allies)

Laguerre

OK, Judith Miller is discredited. But she has many successors, who are ready to do the same thing. Elizabeth Sly, for example.

AndrewW

“Nobody is driven in to war by ignorance, and no one who thinks he will gain anything from it is deterred by fear.” - Hermocrates of Syracuse


I'm not inclined to believe the self-serving rationalizations of ambitious individuals. People like Judith Miller don't have a problem with the original decision to invade Iraq. They just don't like how it turned out and wish to avoid any responsibility for the fallout their actions have wrought.


Oh well. Just another day in a collapsing empire.

Allen Thomson


An excellent article, which I will save. But could I suggest a bit of copy editing? That's a pain, but it does help.

bth

For what she did to my family. For what she did to my country. Damn her. She knew what she was doing and she did it anyway.

Laguerre

A woman should not be judged on her appearance. That should be left to women,who judge their own.

Haralambos

Richard and anyone knowledgeable,
Thank you for this. I was struck by this interview and the comments: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=13754

In the comments, several folks contend that the US knew there were no WMDs and that is why they could go in without the risk of triggering them or hitting sites with them thereby exposing the region to the various types of fallout. I had not entertained that thought back in the day as I wondered what we were risking with all the bombing. My thoughts at the time included one that we were unleashing terror with Shock and Awe, almost a perfect translation for Aristotle's definition of the effect tragedy in the spectacle of the Greek theater of the day.

walrus

Thank you for your penetrating essay Mr. Sale. My Father, an old intelligence hand, observed that he hoped that the U.S. had better (secret) evidence than what they presented to the world before the invasion because it certainly didn't convince him.

As for Judith Miller, I suspect you are being too kind to her. She had the tools, intelligence and experience to produce a credible analysis yet she chose, as Col. Boyd is quoted on another thread, to choose the the path to fame, rather than truth, at the crossroads.

Babak Makkinejad

Richard Sale:

Was is the path of fame that she chose or was it partisanship for a policy that was intended to advance the interests of the State of Israel?

Do you know?

turcopolier

bth

Some here do not know that you lost a son in Iraq. Miller is unique among the neocons in that she paid for her crimes against the American people and humanity. her writing partner, Michael Gordon, still prospers at the NY Times. James Wolsey, Bolton, Frum, Ledeen, Wolfowitz and many, many more are doing very well and are signed up in depth as ME advisers to all the major 2016 campaigns. I may support Bernie Sanders. pl

MRW

Seems impossible that Miller would have missed this Steve Hedges article from the Chicago Tribune in 2002:
"U.S. pays PR guru to make its points"
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2002-05-12/news/0205120237_1_pentagon-work-rendon-group-office-of-strategic-influence

Or John MacArthur's book, "Second Front: Censorship and Propaganda in the Gulf War," which I read in the mid-90s, and which knocked my socks off. It as a devastating read. Upon checking for the full name on Amazon, I see that MacArthur reissued the book in 2004 with a new preface on the 2nd Iraq War. How could she not know what was going on?
http://www.amazon.com/Second-Front-Censorship-Propaganda-1991/dp/0520242319
A review for the first book listed on Amazon is "Nothing less than an indictment of the American news media for dereliction of duty under fire." -- New York Newsday. And that referred to Operation Desert Storm (1990-1991).

You have more of a stomach than I have. I couldn't even watch her on The Daily Show. I wasn't about to give her a hit in addition to listening to tripe to sell her book.

Larry Kart

It's been brought up before, but perhaps not often enough: One key factor in Miller's dire journalistic behavior back then and in the Times' editorial hierarchy permitting/encouraging what Miller and Michael Gordon were doing was how frightened the Times was of being left behind at the station, so to speak, by the New Dominant Reality of the Bush administration. As Karl Rove has explained, stoking and exploiting this fear on the part of Times that it would be labeled once and for all as a debased liberal organ in a world were liberalism was on the run was definitively on the run was a carefully calculated strategy on the part of the administration; and Times editor Bill Keller went belly up for it, as did publisher Arthur Sulzberger, whose window into this brave new neo-con world was his good friend Tom Friedman. These guys just didn't want to be run over by what they believed was the juggernaut of History, especially when they saw a place for themselves alongside the driver's seat -- it's about as simple and ugly as that.

MRW

One of my all-time favorite books (not for the faint-hearted) is Robert Bechtold Heilman's "Tragedy and Melodrama."

In it Heilman describes the difference between the melodramatic and tragic casts-of mind, which he says defines a society or civilization. He says these perspectives define a man's thinking as well as the society at large.

Twenty years before George W Bush, he described the melodramatic cast-of-mind as one in which the [main character] perceives himself as completely whole, wholly good, and that everything that happens to him (or it) comes from without, whether that is good or evil. The melodramatic cast-of-mind sees the world as us against them, good vs evil, either for us or against us. A melodramatic society--this is not a pejorative, but descriptive, which Heiman takes 150 pages to explore---is young, unsophisticated, incapable of greatness in its decisions or undertakings, and its literature reflects that. Comedy is a melodramatic form as well, one that makes us laugh. Present day Israel embraces the melodramatic cast-of-mind.

The tragic cast-of-mind requires the attainment of self-knowledge, self-awareness, and eventual responsibility for one's actions. Always. Hellman laments in the early part of his book the common misuse of the word "tragedy" to describe catastrophic accidents or disastrous natural events: 'Tragedy on Highway 40', or 'Tragic Indian Earthquake Kills All Village Children'. He says it couldn't have been a tragedy because we have no way of knowing if the guy who died in the car accident was aware of what he did that led to his demise. Ditto the natural event no one saw coming. But the best part of this book is his description of how a society cannot accept tragic literature from its writers until it has matured and become advanced. It cannot become a great civilization without self-realization and responsibility. I don't do Heilman's arguments justice here. He makes a comment somewhere in the book that the day we can accept a Broadway play in which a Nazi guard becomes a sympathetic main character (a tragic character) will be the day we will have advanced as a society.

Alī Bābā

Mr. Sale, LTG Tom McInerney (USAF ret) when asked why Iraq back in early-November 2001? He said "Unfinished conventional military business"...

It had zero to do with WMDs..

Mr.Sale, ask Tom why he and Brit Hume did the Fox News program " Target Iraq" using 1992 weapons storage locations?

MRW

Sanders hired the brilliant Stephanie Kelton as Chief Economist for the Senate Finance Committee this past January. If he wins, and she goes with him into a position that has real teeth, the US will change overnight, and I am not being hyperbolic. To know who she is search for her talks on youtube. Effing brilliant, logical, and able to reduce complex macro- and micro-economic principles to simple analogies Joe Q Public can understand.

MRW

"Some here do not know that you lost a son in Iraq."

What a heartbreak, bth. What an unfillable hole has been driven through your life.

turcopolier

All

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/06/drinking-the-koolaid-w-patrick-lang.html

pl

Jack

Mr. Sale

It should be repeated many times that our mainstream media would put the Soviets Pravda to shame in the quality of their deceit. It also should not be forgotten that the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent destabilization of Iraq that has led to ISIS was a bipartisan project. The current sole Democrat in the presidential nomination stakes was an enthusiastic supporter of the invasion. Obama has continued that tradition. And every Republican candidate will do the same.

It's easy point fingers at neocons, likudniks, or other groups but the reality is that the majority of Americans were in on the project. Let's face it we want to believe fantasies and our hubris knows no bounds.

Ex-PFC Chuck

Couldn't agree more re Stephanie Kelton. And the whole Econ Dept. at UMKC, for that matter..

Ishmael Zechariah

bth,

My deepest condolences. I know words can do nothing for such a loss.

Ishmael Zechariah

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