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06 May 2015

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The Beaver

Mr Sale,

Isn't it "a fait accompli" since September 2012, thanks to former Sec of State HR Clinton after intense lobbying from some GOP and Dem from the Hill as well as some prominent lawyers such as Republican lawyers Joseph diGenova and Victoria Toensing. We shouldn't forget the BFF Guiliani who goes to France every year to attend its meeting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/08/mek-lobbying_n_913233.html

Former Sen. Robert Torricelli (D-N.J.) was ( and I believe is still) hired to lobby on its behalf.

Richard Sale

Politics need simply wipe clean the needed history.

Richard Sale

William R. Cumming

My info is that the US did NOT totally disarm MeK after 2003! Could be wrong.

The Beaver

Not to miss - since 2010 he has been on that money trail - here goes Giuliani ( and he will pocket $100K for that démarche):
[On Wednesday, Giuliani appeared on Fox & Friends, where he announced that he’s traveling to Berlin this weekend to meet with the Mujahedeen e-Khalq (MEK), which he says “could replace the Iranian government.”]

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/03/rudy-giuliani-supports-mujahedin-group-hammer-sickle-logo-hes-paid/

Patrick Bahzad

"The French were terrified of them" ? Says a CIA official who doesn't know shit from shanola I would think !
Richard, you have to be careful with quoting people with very poor knowledge of circumstances at the time I'm afraid ... The French were delighted of having the MeK's leadership in France on the contrary ! Why do you think we granted them asylum in the first place ? We had much more serious things to worry about at the time than an islamo Marxist militant group.
We were happy to have them as they offered Intel and insights into Iran at a time we were having a protracted war against Tehran, with hostages in Lebanon being used as leverage ... Do you know about the 86 bombing campaigns by Iranian agents in Paris ? I'm not sure your CIA source does ! We let MeK kill people including Americans because they were more useful than dangerous to our interests at the time ... And there was no legal way of proving their involvement in some of those assassinations. Its as simple as that.
Stuxnet is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of collusion between MeK and US and ISR interests ... It goes a lot further than that, both further in time and further in cooperation. When the CIA informants network in Iran was blown who do you think US Intel turned to to get some (dubious) insights into Tehrans nuclear program ? And who was behind the dubious Intel MeK provided the US IC ... Catch my drift ?
Also under Bush, the plans to use MeK as a sort of spearhead of potential invasion of Iran like Northern Alliance in Afghanistan Had a lot of support. Why do you think ashraf base with 4000 men indice was Being protected by US forces all that Time after initial assaut during OIF ?
As has Been said in another thread, when you base your human intelligence on proxy assets you run the risk of being played, knowingly or not.

lally

"Stuxnet is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of collusion between MeK and US and ISR interests ... It goes a lot further than that, both further in time and further in cooperation."

Sure is and does

Germany should also be included in the axis of common interests.

It could be a tactical error on the part of the MEK to be raising their profile of late. Too many people are curious about how a cult that makes Scientology look like a Cub Scout Jamboree has gained such extraordinary influence within American (and EU) circles. Hubris blinds.

While there are a confounding number of threads to follow through the MEK maze, there is a growing body of volunteers taking on the task of tracking them.

Gareth Porter has researched the ties between dodgy dossiers shared between the Mossad, MEK, Germany and ultimately, US.

Who knows? We may ultimately find that the MEK has ties to another one of "Shia" Iran's most formidable enemies in the guise of ISIS et al.


Patrick Bahzad

Anything is possible but I don't believe in conspiracy theories linking any and everything without knowledge or evidence to back it up. MeK has a track record in Europe dating back to 1981 in France, we've been following them ever since.
There may be ties to several players, I would very seriously doubt ISIS being one of them ! For very obvious reasons

lally

Conspiracy theories and the enemy of my enemy="friend" calculations are SOP in the Levant. Look at Lebanon!!! My speculations don't rise to the level of CT, call them informed intuition if you like.

There is evidence of MKO for support for ISIL; it's thin, but it's there. It's allegedly so declared by Madame herself before a meeting of 80,000 at Villepinte. There is rumor of cooperation with KSA as well.

The goals of both entities are copacetic; neutralize "Shia" Iran et al at any cost. If the worthies of the MEK are involved, it would most likely be in the realm of communications and staging and killings of convenience.

( French involvement in the regional business; especially that of Lebanon, is of great interest. Paris being a haven away from home for many Lebanese actors in trouble at one time or another. Another tip of the iceberg in regards to the French role and legacy of involvement in Beirut. Lebanese are proud to count French among their nearly native languages.)

Patrick Bahzad

Sure, you're right about CT being SOP in certain areas, including in Levant, where it is a bit of "favourite hobby" ... and quite entertaining occasionally.

In the case of MeK and ISIS however, I see the MeK's commitment to a certain form of Shia Islam as a major hurdle for any arrangement with an organisation such as the Islamic State, despite possible contacts that may have existed between MeK and former baathist officers of Saddam who joined ISIS in the years 2005-2007 (at the time AQI).

For the salafi/takfiri majority of the ISIS ground troops, MeK would be "atheists" at best, apostates at worst. In both cases, there's possibly or probably death at the end of the road ...

lally

For it's part, the MEK commitment is to shape-shifting in order to accumulate and hold power. The niceties of loyalty to a particular brand of ideology are beside the point in their case. "They" will be whatever the moment demands.

At present. "democracy" is a key word. It's all smoke and mirrors with these folk.

But really, does it even matter what the foot soldiers of either entity think? They will do as they are told. I doubt that the fighters of Daesh even know from MEK/MKO.

Richard Sale

That is sheer lunacy.

Richard sale

Richard Sale

The CIA source was on the ground at the time of the murders.

you can scold me but I take careful notes. I am not a cross examiner.

Richard Sale

Richard Sale

Your loose, braggart tone and your airs of omniscience are very unbecoming. My source was a member of the CIA‘s Directorate of Operations. He told me of the murders of U.S. military in 2008 and in 2012, I asked him if he stood by them, and he said he did.
But you seem to think that your view reflects, in total, the views of the French government and you go on to belabor my carelessness. But I was not being careless. I was attempting to be accurate. My source was perhaps in error when he said, “the French were terrified” by the MEK.” So perhaps his assertion was flippant and reckless. But the premise of your remarks is that you reflect the view of the entire French government. Is that true? You seem to forget that there are not only errors of fact, which could be the case of my CIA source, but there are also errors of tone, of which I believe you are guilty.

Patrick Bahzad

fair enough if you don't appreciate the tone of my comment, a man's measure is also given by the way he handles criticism. the ones guilty of omniscient illusion are not located on this side of the Atlantic Ocean.
If you think we're out of our depth and don't have anything of interest to contribute about an organisation that's been on French soil for 35 years, with hundreds of militants living in a Paris suburb, that is your right. But Quoting people from the same agency and same gouvernement over and over is not going to give any different perspective to the issues you're examining.
But I don't hold a grudge and don't take things personal, so feel free to treat this as you see fit.

Patrick Bahzad

I'm not disputing the reality of those murders but I'm having an issue with a description of our perception of MeK, which was the least of France's problems really in the 1980s. As for my tone, I'm not a journalist and I speak my mind.

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