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03 April 2015

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tv

When did Israel occupy the US Embassy?
When did Israeli mobs march on said Embassy chanting "Death to AMERICA"?
When did the PM of Israel begin his speeches with "Death to America?"
When did Israel participate in the killing of US soldiers in Iraq and US Marines in Lebanon?
Before you throw up the USS Liberty as some sort of moral equivalence, ask yourself if Israel is ruled by a cabal of psychopaths right out of the 12th century?

Swami Bhut Jolokia

tv, thank you for your comments. You have confirmed my opinion that few partisans on this issue are able to look at the proposed framework in a dispassionate manner. Attitudes and positions driven by emotion have never been a very good way of conducting foreign policy.

Babak Makkinejad

No Israelis are just boy scouts; when they invade Lebanon and kill women, children, old people; they are looking there for partners for peace - or when - like the Germans who brought Ukrainians to murder Jews - they brought Christians to murder Palestinians.

As for who is psychopath: I ask you: what do you call those who invade other countries that are not a threat to them, do not seek a war with them, and just wish to be left alone?

Babak Makkinejad

The Arak reactor as a proliferation concern was always a canard; a zero-out put graphite moderated reactor burning natural uranium could be installed under a parking garage and no one would be the wiser.

For someone who lives under the atomic protection of the United States, I do not understand your concern if others seeks similar protection.

Babak Makkinejad

Russia and China were never ever supporters of Iran; they just did not wish for US to gain control of Iran or have her reoriented towards the Western Alliance.

They have been successful in preventing that and gave enough rope to US and EU to burn their bridges with Iran for many decades.

Babak Makkinejad

Is there anyone in Germany who has expertise in the Near East and does not depend on US information or scholarship?

LeaNder

Obviously, not only a bit, but a lot. ... Since post WWII English dominates the language of science to a rather large extend in the whole "Western World", not just Germany. And this results in American/British scholarship dominating the scene. ... Sometimes, often, I have no statistics on that.

The scholar I read on Islamism has a background in the Semitic languages, and cultures up to modern Arab. The only article he published, for your information, about Persian discusses a possible influence of an Arabian term on the Persian language.

I just checked his literature list, concerning Khomeini he refers to one American and one British* publication and only concerning Shia to a German scholar. With the latter apparently only dealing with 12er Shia, due to the type of in a nutshell series.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baqer_Moin

no doubt in my current larger reading context, it's occasionally hard to decide where the precise difference between journalism and scholarship is...

LeaNder

Babak, I wrote this above in response to "b":

"Another issue: Were I Iranian I quite possibly would demand that my country has the ultimate threateningly defensive tools to prevent regime change too. Just as equal rights to study matters. But as the following that is a different matter."

I understand that a lot, and I did in fact grant him to feel the same, not least because of the Iraq war next door, and the constant turning up the heat against Iran.

The problem I have concerning b's hyperactivity is this:
What would statistics show up if you polled Americans. How many would assume that Iraq is developing as Netan-yoo-hoo suggests?
No doubt one at least has to try to take the heat out of the issue. No?

To what extend are the discussion and paper based on simple IAEA rules, completely separate from the facts on the ground, e.g. From the top of my head. ...

B simply assumes, that we all have to be protected from possible propaganda in this result, and that is a bit haughty: "No one knows more about the Ripper then I do."

Basically it feels to me, the world should get rid of this type of tools. I never wanted atomic weapons on German ground. There was quite a bit of protest against Pershings over here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-31_Pershing

LeaNder

European protest against nuclear arms in Europe are the basis for what we call over here: The Easter Marches:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldermaston_Marches

turcopolier

LeAnder

"I never wanted atomic weapons on German ground. There was quite a bit of protest against Pershings over here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-31_Pershing" but you never objected to having our ICBM force cover you, did you? pl

Babak Makkinejad

You do not object to the US nuclear protection; premised on the ability to annihilate 100 million within 15 minutes.

Else, why remain part of NATO?

Babak Makkinejad

IAEA has no rules that are impartial; it does what its masters tells it to do - among them the P5.

At any rate, I am not addressing myself to "b" - I am asking you direct and simple questions and you never supply an answer.

Babak Makkinejad

So, there is no living scholar of Shia, Iran, and the political situation in the Near East or inside Iran in Germany.

Good.

At least we on this forum can conclude that the German people - likely Austrians as well - including journalists, policy-makers, and politicians are not qualified to offer any opinions or to otherwise suggest courses of actions when it comes to Iran, the Shia, and the wider interaction of the Shia and Sunni, Turko-Persians and Arabs etc.

It is good to learn of one's limitations.

LeaNder

Pat, I wasn't against the Allied Forces on German ground, we seamed to deserve a little control. ;)But I found the occasional paranoia envisioning Russian tanks around the corner any second, hysterical. Why should I deny this? And you stumbled across that mindset, no doubt. Revenge?

In earlier times, I surely did not reflect enough that I profited from the US defensive capabilities too, no doubt. Americans were around, so what. But yes, I found it pretty frightening when a series of huge US tanks thundered down the road next to me once in Berlin. Gave me the only frightening glimpse on what war may feel like, apart from the ruins left around me in one of the places I grew up.

What I had more problems with, I have to admit, was that the anti-communism of the cold war seemed to provide us Germans both with continuity and cover. I didn't like. To this extend, I surely was a member of my generations. It felt that Hitler was supported by financial interests too. ... I realize by now that to some extend I may have fought windmills. ... But yes, I didn't mourn Hans Martin Schleyer, when the RAF killed him. I am afraid, I have to admit.

Political reality as far as the diverse political groups on the left present in university, Maoist, Marxist Leninist, Reich'ians*, ... wasn't there even Gaddafi's-green-bible-group?... and so forth, that's a different matter. Occasionally some of their "leaders" controlled the whole classroom in ways, I deeply disliked. And I was never drawn to their political pamphlets and crude discourse. ... Getting your degree fast and without much work was easy in Berlin at that time**, but I decided to leave. ... And went to Great Britain. And looking back, I wonder if that wasn't the core issue concerning the larger crowd, less ideology.

* http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich#Politische_Aktivit.C3.A4ten

** it was also known in the industry.


You once wrote, I am anti-authoritarian. I can accept that, without any hesitation. But Anti-American, I am not. And never was. I basically think some core conflicts only have different shades in the US then over here. They are not essentially different...

I don't like nationalist pride, wherever I encounter it. Thus I do not like it, if I meet it in a US citizen either. But strictly you make a difference between nationalism and patriotism. At least I seem to have stumbled across something like that. I doubt I would have stayed that long if you would exhibit that trait. But I guess that's not something specific enough to count as evidence for Anti-Americanism. Never mind US power.

LeaNder

Please you got me where you wanted me to start with? But no direct insults today? Last note:

The guy he based his short summary on, is one of these experts apparently. And considering he is the student of another scholar I am more familiar with and quite old, there must be a multitude. If google Persian and university there are university institutes all over the place and they must have profs on the issue.

Its not my field. One of the two prof heading the respective field of studies here in Cologne is an expert on Persian, language and culture*, the other and Arabist. And this is just here.

* I use culture as embracing the diverse religions in Persia over the centuries, I haven't checked the respective theological branches, or "Islamkunde" in Germany, that studies Islam.

To what extend your series above is more influenced by Zeitgeist then the more and more specialized academic circle in the field is a pretty different matter it feels.

Babak Makkinejad

Not at all, I just have never read any informed commentary on Islam, Iran, etc. from Germany; in Deutsche Welle or in Der Spiegel. Nor in the various academic institutes that study Iran, Islam, the Near East.

UK commentators, on the whole, are better informed and less stridently anti-Iranian or anti-Muslim; in my opinion.

El Paise, when it comes to Iran, Islam, Arabs, is ill-informed and at times stupid.

There is some sound commentary from Italy - but no one listens to what Italians have to say; they are neither a great economic power nor have an independent nuclear deterrence.


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