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16 March 2015

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Jack

Sir

Do you think there is even a remote possibility that the American people will end their fantasy love affair with the Ziocons within the next 2 decades?

turcopolier

Jack No

different clue

I suspect he was also lying to the American Jews who were not familiar with his background and who had not understood the real meaning of the Rabin assassination (i.e. not just an Oswaldiform
"lone gunman").

Davidclinton

Many Republicans distrusted Bill Clinton because of his womanizing, but trusted BiBi despite his womanizing. We should ask them now about this inconsistency.

Cee

All,

I'm watching The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC. The guests were looking grim regarding this topic. Ari Melber ( I love this guy) is filling in for Lawrence.

I hope this will be the end of this Not So Special Relationship!

This post originally appeared at The Jewish Daily Forward on Mar 3., 2015.

The case Netanyahu laid out against an Iran deal in his address to Congress revolves around 11 core arguments. Think they sound convincing? Look at those arguments one by one, and you’ll see why each of them is bogus.

http://qz.com/356001/11-lies-netanyahu-told-congress-on-iran/

Abu Sinan

IMO none of the mainstream political parties in Israel wants to allow a Palestinian state, no matter what they say. The only real difference between them on this issue is how they present this fact to the world. Netanyahu is just more in your face and clear about it.

LeaNder

"Fascinatingly, many, many Americans want to accept his nonsense."

Yes, I agree, highly fascinating. Obviously the US anxiety goes beyond the European including German one in this context. And strictly I wonder if this is slightly beyond the Lobby theory based on the US image as the good nation. The American fight against the Nazis and its no doubt high sacrifice may well be the ultimate source. It can't be compared to America helping to end WWI.

There are several things on my mind in this context. Foremost maybe the late Peter Novick's study: The Holocaust in American Life. Which is on my reading list since this time:


http://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/on-the-passing-of-novick-the-political-limitations-of-the-holocaust-in-american-life

What's probably much more difficult to handle is the 19 early 20 century context. Or, if I may, the Jewish Janusface of European nationalism: Zionism.

****

More back on topic. The statement made news. German TV just reported a rather high voter turnout.

Whenever I look at Netanyahu his father Benzion is not far behind on my own personal synapses.

Babak Makkinejad

Yes, and that is why it is important to get a cease-fire of sorts in Palestine; chiefly for the sake of Palestinians and secondarily for the sake of preventing further aggravation of the religious confrontation between the World of Islam and the United States and her European allies.

William R. Cumming

Both the US and Israel refuse to clarify what they regard as the official borders of Israel. How do the Israeli political parties line up?

Babak Makkinejad

On this forum, over the years, I tried to disabuse you from the quaint "Lobby Theory" and I am gratified that you finally grasp the fact that the electorate in US loves Israel; that Israel can do no wrong.

As for Netanyahu, he is just saying what other Israelis think. Even the less bellicose Israelis want the Arabs to leave Israel; "We have only one country for Jews and Arabs have so many countries." and the Arabs here are those citizen of Israel who are living within the 1948 UN Partition borders.

It is also interesting to observe as Israel resurrects such Ottoman practices for dealing with minority rebellious populations; periodic punitive expeditions and massacres as well as setting up communal governing structures for the conquered a la Sultan Suleiman Qanooni (Lawful).

The EU humanitarians and the American secularists are all supporting claims of one religion against those of another religion's. This constitutes a religious war, in my opinion and as long as we are not willing to accept this reality - and calling things by their names - we will not move forward.

Swami Bhut Jolokia

"In which case the Republicans in Congress will continue to do his bidding"

Liars in Israel making common cause with liars in Congress. Sounds about right.

DC

That IS a rather staggering statement from an Israeli Prime minister: to explicitly reject a goal of U.S. policy and presidents since at least 1992. What will the new Israeli government say, now, about a 2-state solution? What will the U.S. say about it, in 2 or 4 or 6 years? U.S. policy with respect to Palestinians in greater Israel is not something you can just sweep under the rug.

Fred

Swami,

Feel free to run for Congress.

eakens

If the relationship with Israel was souring before this statement, I can't wait to see what the next 18 months will look like.

LeaNder

Babak, you never really needed to "disabuse" me from it. I even initially agreed with "the Dersh", or his recension of the Walt/Mearsheimer's book. And I am not really a fan of "the Dersh".

On the other hand I have come to accept that it is a piece of the larger puzzle. I only object to it as the one and only explanation to a larger puzzle.

People tend to act according to their deeper beliefs, and only if you do not act you can be sure that you may not partly become guilty for acting. That's one of my core beliefs.

Swami Bhut Jolokia

Fred, I will if you'll vote for me.

LeaNder

"The EU humanitarians and the American secularists are all supporting claims of one religion against those of another religion's. This constitutes a religious war, ..."

Could you elaborate on this? I am highly interested as probably a lapsed Catholic (in some eyes*) basically concerning the church as institution and many (not all) of its authorities.

* shaped by my mother, as more interested in similarities and parallels in the diverse religions then in differences at the time of my last years in highschool. ...

Nancy K

I think American Christians may be more gaga over Bibi than American Jews, at least the younger Jews. The Republicans in Congress act as if they were 15 years old girls and he was one of the Beatles.

rick

Once had someone say that to me. I looked at hit gravely and said I would choose to regard it as a compliment, otherwise they were fighting words.

Babak Makkinejad

One example is sufficient:

The Al Haram Al Sharif is contested religious grounds:

The Dome of the Rock is built over the place, according to Islamic Tradition, from which the Prophet of Islam ascended to Heaven in his Night Journey from Mecca to Jerusalem - on the back of the heavenly hose - Al Buraq.

The Al Aqsa Mosque is where during the same Night Journey and according to Islamic Tradition, God gathered all the prior prophets who were led in prayer then by the Prophet of Islam.

Jewish claim is that there is the site of Temple of Solomon - a man and a king for whom no shred of archeological evidence has been found over 100 years as Christians and Jews have gone up and down Palestine trying to substantiate their religions - although some evidence for the events in Book of Judges has been discovered.

As to your point about the Catholic Church:

The Pope goes to the Wailing Wall and sticks a paper prayer there - indicating that he accepts the Jewish Tradition as to their claims.

On the other hand, Iranians, in their thousands go to the mosque in Jamaran and drop their prayers in the well there - in connection with the Hidden Imam.

One would hope that the Christians, if they are so desirous of supporting a religious state, stick closer to their own place - support UK, or the Vatican, or the Knights Templar - none of whom are at war with Islam.

Babak Makkinejad

"Guilty for acting"?

That is funny coming from a lapsed Catholic.

Thomas

So the cornerstone with Solomon's signature can't be found therefore two religions' claims are false?

Something important was located on that ground as both Nebuchadnezzar and Titus decided to remove it during their insurgency reduction campaigns.

Swami Bhut Jolokia

In other news, I see Bibi is doing well in the exit polls today. Tied with Herzog at 27 seats right now (17:00 EDT)

Babak Makkinejad

Please do not shoot the messenger.

The burden of proof is with those who believe in the historical veracity of the accounts of the Old Testament.

There is a site in Iran that is purported to be the tomb of Daniel, another site is supposed to be the final resting place of Esther and Mordechai.

And by last count, there are 23 prophets buried in Iran.

You go ahead and decide on the historical truths of all those claims.

Cee

All,

You saw me rooting for him openly.


Palestinians hope for change but secretly root for Netanyahu

While many believe the Palestinian Authority wants Netanyahu out of power, some officials admit rightwing rule helps Palestinians portray Israel as an obstacle to peace; ‘even his Congress speech helps us,’ PA official says. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4623567,00.html

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