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26 January 2015

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Babak Makkinejad

Charlemagne was not French since France did not exist at the time - the confusion lies in using the same name for the language as well as the state.

My point was that German-speakers outside of the Oster Reich endeavored to create a Deutsch Culture, emulating the French-speakers of the post-Monarchic France.

As for the Makkinejad Thesis: it explains so much and points to a potential productive paths for future development.

Per the Makkinejad Thesis, there is no chance of Liberal Democracy and its embodiments anywhere outside of the old boundaries of Seljuk Empire.

All you will get out of any interaction with people outside of that boundary is endless cups of tea and not much else; they do not understand you and you will never understand them.

Babak Makkinejad

Even before the merger into EU, the Greek Government, run by socialists, borrowed money to support a standard of living that Greeks had not earned.

Joining euro made that borrowing available to all of the Greeks and thus multiplied the issue of corruption and profligacy.

Turks would have done the same thing, in my opinion, had they been admitted to Euro-Zone.

LeaNder

"My sense of the statement "..long-term project of rebuilding the Soviet Union at Western expense.." is that this is the phraseology that is needed to get you published."

Babak, I would assume that Mead doesn't need to ask what he can publish. I also think that he simply mirrors the views the elite American circles he moves in.

The obsession with Germany of course can rely on a solid basis. I remember the hysteria in 1989. Don't let them unite again, they will do it all over again. Well, now we cunningly and secretly do it in a different way. No?

This is funny: "Germany cannot save Ukraine when the price of oil is at $100 per barrel; it cannot save Ukraine when the price of oil is $25 per barrel."

Mead of course is aware that our economy benefits from oil prices at the moment.

Apart from that, the European crash scenario on the horizon is not so hard to predict. With or without Putin "ante portas. we have hardly recovered from the from the financial crisis in 2007-2008 what about the shadow banking systems involved? Would it be possible that some economies could deal with that better then others?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/explained/the_financial_and_economic_crisis/responding_to_the_financial_crisis/index_en.htm

Now what should we best do, according to Mead, with Putin "ante portas", trying to bring us down? Well the same America has asked us to do for centuries now. Put more finances defense budgets and arms to fight the old new enemies in the East.

Highly inspirational. Would it matter that the Russians suffered the lions share of losses in human life on the "Eastern Front" in Russia. Russia lost a lot of Russians look it up. Could there be some type of German responsibility towards the Russians too? Not just towards Israel?

I would assume that if more countries follow the Greece example it will give rise to a strong right-wing camp in other places. David seems to already tend into that direction. Gladly he still has his Pound. Now I guess I ended somewhat sarcastic. Yes, revolution in Russia was a really bad idea. But how exactly did it come about?

I am not so fond of White Russians, David. Maybe since the German-Bolshevik-Conspiracy preceded the later Jewish-Bolshevik threat and the accompanying larger myth? Who knows, and they helped spread it "the Jewish conspiracy".

The German-Bolshevik-Conspiracy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisson_Documents

LeaNder

ok, I give you the benefit of doubt on your Makkinejad thesis, since I guess I would need to know much more about history in that part of the world and the Arabian parts of it. I understand that's were you draw the line.

"Oster Reich endeavored to create a Deutsch Culture,"

Ost Reich or Östliches Reich would be "Ostfrankenreich" in German. You see the Franks are still in there. Oster(n) if you add an "n" would be Easter. The word Oster does not exist.

But these East Franks didn't really need to create their own culture, if you have language in mind, there are historical reasons for that. The Romans were less successful the more East it gets. And more successful in modern France. The language of the people that lived in the western part was shaped by vulgar Latin in other words by the Romans much earlier.

It's not so easy really. The Normans, that later influenced the English language too adopted the language of the region, in their own variant. But they were really North Men initially. Another Germanic tribe. Imagine, the French! Normandy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you for your comments.

What is foolish about Germany and indeed EU is sanctioning Russia.

What has been even more foolish, in my opinion, has been for the ECB to have waited this long to initiate the purchasing of public debt.

This wait enabled the for the Great Depression to destroy small enterprises in the Southern Europe; how can you help their economies when their businesses have been liquidated?

Yes, I know; everyone wants money from Germany. But Germany exports 50% of her GDP, she needs the lebensraum of EU and its captive nations to sustain her current economic model.

Even Japan exports less - 20% of their GDP - and lives on the remaining 80%.

kao_hsien_chih

DH,

One factor that is pushing otherwise "conservative" powers (mainly Russia) into revisionism is the other, much more delusional aspect of the Western consensus: the particular brand of cosmopolitian, internationalist "liberalism." I don't think there is a fundamental opposition to the basic minimalist aspects of the "Davoisie" consensus. Putin seems to be as much of a capitalist as a lot of Western Europeans or Japanese, although not necessarily as much as many Americans. Putin seems to subscribe to some notion of "democracy" (at least in the sense that he is not an advocate of blunt authoritarianism as per the Chinese). He is certainly a fan of the rule of the law. But, the kind of "western" and "international" cultural norms, he is not, especially if they introduce further strife and instability in Russia (in fact, it is not even clear that there is as strong a consensus behind these norms even in the "West"--that is the root cause behind so-called Culture Wars in the U.S. and, up to a significant point, why supposedly extremist parties do as well as they do in Western Europe, after all.

(Can't write much at this point...but wanted to chime in on that point.)

Ingolf


"But Germany exports 50% of her GDP . . . ".

True, but she also imports 45%. Perfectly normal in northern Europe; similar (and sometimes much higher) ratios apply to Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Austria etc etc.

confusedponderer

"Charlemagne was not French since France did not exist at the time"

Babak,
that is just silly. So France didn't exist at the time? The French disagree sharply with that view, and here's why:

Clovis founded the Merowingian empire. Charlemagne succeeded the Merowingians and built on that the Carolingian empire that went beyond Merowingian lands. The Merowingian and Carolingian lands - Francia - covered much of what today is France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francia

Germans actually share a similar view of Charlemagne as the founder of their country, largely due to Charlemagne's German conquests and point to Charlemagne's foundation of the Holy Roman Empire that makes up much of what today is Gemany, and more.

I.e. Germans and French alike consider Charlemagne the founder of their respective countries. That is largely why Charlemagne is invoked as a symbol in contemporary Franco-German relations.

Irrespective of whether all this is in your view historically incorrect (it isn't), Germans and French alike still identify with Charlemagne in the way they do.

Dismissing that as 'incorrect' doesn't change that fact anymore than Israeli bickering about here not having been a Palestinian nation before 1948 prevents the existence of a coresponding feeling of nationality today. What counts that there is one now.

Indeed, sometimes nations and national identity just emerge deus ex machina - take Israel herself. Pointing out that for a large part of the Israelis ancestors were Russians, Poles, Lituanians, Germans etc pp doesn't change a bit about there being both an Israeli national identity and nationalism today, niot to mention the state itself.

In comparison, French and German claims to nationhood are comparably much more solid.

Babak Makkinejad

I stand by what I have written; here is map of the period:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne#mediaviewer/File:Francia_at_the_death_of_Pepin_of_Heristal,_714.jpg

Where is France?

rjj

Did Celtic Gaul last as an entity until the Germanic Franks conquered it? If so, there is - or was France. The Gallic-German push-pull has been going on a long, long time. Impressive!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentarii_de_Bello_Gallico#mediaviewer/File:Map_Gallia_Tribes_Towns.png

David Habakkuk

LeaNder,

I wish I had time to respond adequately to your post, but the inquest into the death of Alexander Litvinenko has just opened, and I am taken up with trying to expose the cover-up by the crooks in MI6.

Experience has taught me to be very suspicious of generalities. The term ‘White Russian’ means very little. My only personal contact with the world of the Russiane emigration was a childhood friend of my mother’s.

Her father was a secular Jewish lawyer, who left St Petersburg, leaving his coat on the back of the door, not long after 1917. His clients had been affluent Russians, and his daughter told me he had been told, that if he converted to Orthodoxy, he would get more clients.

He made it out from Crimea because one of those clients gave him the money to do so. In London, he filled the room of the house he brought with pictures of St. Petersburg.

While the father remained unrepentantly secular to the end of his days, his daughter was received into the Orthodox Church, and in her retirement ran the bookshop of the Orthodox Cathedral here.

I thought of this, when I read Michael Oren asking David Rothkopf:

“Do you consider your life inextricably linked to the Jewish story? Do all Jews — American, Israeli, or French for that matter – share a destiny? I can’t speak for American Jews, but my guess is that the overwhelming majority of Israelis, religious and secular, would answer all of those questions in the affirmative. A nation-state will do that for you.”

This is a totalitarian mentality. Likewise, to talk of ‘White Russians’ as some kind of coherent whole is as much bullshit as to talk as though Jews, or Germans, or Americans, or Englishmen, had some kind of ‘essence’ in common.

We are in part the hand which we are dealt by our past, and in part what we make of it.

David Habakkuk


kao_hsien_chih,

As with you, this has caught me at a bad time. I think you are absolutely right, and there is a lot more that I would like to say. But there will plenty of opportunities to resume the discussion, when we both have more time!

confusedponderer

Babak,
Neustrie, Bourgogne, Aquitaine, Gascogne, Provence, Austrasie are all provinces of the whole thing that is Francia.

confusedponderer

"Did Celtic Gaul last as an entity until the Germanic Franks conquered it"

France was a province of the Roman empire when the Franks came.

Celtic influence largely only remained in Brittany.

Charles I

You must go and read Vineyard of the Sakar today where he outlines the next phases into February and beyond in the most alarming and plausible manner

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/

Babak Makkinejad

The event that marked the birth of France, in my opinion, was Kingdom of France, which was fully declared in 1190 by Philip II Augustus.

LeaNder

rjj, that's the usual early basic text in Latin over here. There was a secret "running gag" about how much better the Asterix and Obelix comics taught history. You only needed to allude to specific scenes. Took the teacher a while to realize what was going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asterix_volumes
;)

different clue

Confused Ponderer,

Might the French and the Germans some day fuse their two countries into one united Great Republic of Charlemagneia?

LeaNder

Ok, David, I regret. Will you forgive me?

You are right of course. I may have a too narrow a perspective on matters. Among White Emigré circles though, antisemitism was rather widespread. And it started much earlier. ... If Sergej Witte had manged to get through the needed reforms and manged to keep Russia out of WWI, a lot of things wouldn't have happened. But there was also considerable resistance to his ideas in Tsarist circles, nobility and the military.

" He is the heir not of Lenin and Trotsky, but of the White officers who fought to save Russia from communism in the civil war of 1917 to 1921."

What I really never realized but intensively started to dislike are these two poles, as if there was not a lot of space somewhere between them.

I wouldn't really use the term for anyone who left Russia post revolution. No doubt even some from the Menshevik camp left too. The person you allude to, it feels wouldn't really fit into what's on my mind in this context. I'll ask someone, Russian emigration is one of his research fields.

I had a great-grandfather who worked for the Tsar, which resulted in me growing up with Russian literature and history via my mother. I discovered Witte or later count Witte there.

Sorry again, David.

anna-marina

I tremble for the people in Ukraine:
"Washington knew perfectly well that Poroshenko is trying to negotiate with Moscow on the peaceful settlement (because only peace could give Poroshenko a chance to protect not just his presidential chair, but his life itself). United States needed a war and, seemingly, they did not want to keep the frightened and confused Petro Alexeyevich at the helm. But Americans were misled by Russian diplomacy. Peace was (and remains) beneficial for Russia, because it forces the United States and its European allies to keep the failed Ukrainian project alive and, therefore, to spend their scarce resources. The Ukrainian coup, intended to make from Kiev not only an eternal source of enmity between Russia and the EU, but also a black hole devouring Moscow’s resources, has not fulfilled any of its tasks -- a year after the coup, Ukraine continues to devour the US resources.
But since Ukraine is just one of many sites of global confrontation between Moscow and Washington, the further concentration of efforts on this site becomes unprofitable for the US. They cannot quit, because then the site will be taken by Russia, which would be a geopolitical defeat of Washington. Therefore, the site must be destroyed. Let the winner occupy the ruins; if they could not entangle him by the whole Ukraine, let he be entangled by the rotting and decaying corpse of Ukraine."
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2015/01/and-hell-was-following-them.html

confusedponderer

No. Friendship is one thing, but if you ask the French their culture is far too superior and grandiose for such a merger.

William R. Cumming

ALL: Any good maps of the Holy Roman Empire out there?

Now that DEFLATION leads the economic threat to the EU how will this play out?

Is my understanding correct that the US still lays out $14-$20 billion each year for its NATO membership and this covers 90% of NATO funding?

confusedponderer

"Kingdom of France, which was fully declared in 1190 by Philip II Augustus"

That was France as a formal nationstate, but the identity and culture was there well before that.

That map by Peppin is somewhat misleading. Peppin divided his realm in half, one for each son, Carloman and Charlemagne. The whole was still Francia.

It is instructive in that regard to look at Normandy.

When the Normans came to France in 911 under the Danish Viking leader Hrolf Ragnvaldsson, or Rollo, they were given Normandy by Charles the Simple, probably, so they wouldn't cause trouble somewhere else.

Rollo was a Dane. When his descendant Wiliam the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy, won at Hastings in 1066, not much more than a 150 years later the Normans spoke French and were christianised. The French had in that short time assimilated them.

LeaNder

anna-marina, I read this from the European perspective, but you may be correct about not articulated underlying motives.

Strictly I am satisfied with a really simplistic approach. The huge, hopefully sustained or increased military budget in search of new markets, e.g. crowd control, the US military misused as world police, or the gambling with new "autonomous" structures beyond NATO in this context. slightly sarcastic: would anyone really trust "old Europe" in the context of the new danger scenarios?

LeaNder

Imagine, Burisma Holdings itself is much more interesting then Kwasniewki's surfacing last year.

It operates from Cyprus and was initially represented by a PR agency in London. There were rumors or theories that Ihor Kolomojskyj controls the firm. Apparently earlier the web.site didn't show who owns or leads the enterprise.

By now we have public faces:
http://burisma.com/en/

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=59556166

I read a bit about Michael Khodorkovsy once, quite a while back. What struck me were his complaints about the demands of European banks concerning investment.

Now Burisma may well be in search of investment. Enter those of us (US, EU) interested in solid investment. With some of us having a lot more to spare then others.

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