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10 January 2015

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Tyler

This is a good message. I hope he is not assassinated for saying what needs to be said.

pbj

Wow, that's quite something. I'd like to see a full translation of the speech... this is the biggest (translated) direct quote I found so far:

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/egypts-sisi-islamic-thinking-is-antagonizing-the-entire-world/

CatMack

Dear Colonel,

I am not sure if I do not read into your commentary too much. Is there a thinly veiled suggestion that if Muslims do not start behaving, the gloves will come off? How would such a development look like?

There might be too much focus on kinetic aspects of recent conflicts, without acknowledging that there is a relentless cultural and economic onslaught against Muslim societies taking place all over the globe. Something that Fabius Maximus touched upon once in an excellent post http://fabiusmaximus.com/2013/09/23/america-victory-55593/. Hard to judge if lower and middle classes of “Western” societies are primary targets or just a collateral damage in this process.

Is anyone going to listen to voices for moderation and reform come from el-Sisi, spoken in brief respites from torture chambers using notes written in London and Washington? Hmm…

Maybe we can consider a thought that Muslims, especially Sunnis, have always been like this, just divided and suppressed for past couple hundred years. West has changed. Are Muslims entitled to try to break their chains and seek their own political agency?

Best,

CatMack

PS. The actual shocker was to see Tyler become a proponent of open mind and progressiveness.

Haralambos


All,
This is a letter up today in The Greek Reporter by Atta-Ul Nasser.
'Charlie Hebdo: “An Attack on Humanity” Says Greek Muslim Community Leader' http://tinyurl.com/KindleWireless

These are the first three paragraphs:
'Muslims all around the world are shocked, disgusted and deeply hurt with the attack on Charlie Hebdo office which left 12 dead and several injured. It is even more painful when this attack is done in the name of Prophet Muhammad and Islam.

'The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community all over the world has categorically condemned this horrific
act of violence. Each and every one of us is in pain due to this atrocity. We offer our sincere
condolences to the families of the victims. Our prayers and thoughts are with them.

'Islam teaches tolerance, love for others, respect, mutual understanding and kindness. We stand united against these terrorists who are using the name of Islam to brainwash young Muslims and radicalize them to support their political agendas. It is a political power struggle and has nothing to do with the core principles of Islam.'

anna-marina

Here are some stunning words that should give pause to those who demonize the muslim world because of 9/11:
"Members of Congress have openly admitted that they have seen documentation that would support an immediate criminal investigation against President Bush (43) and his closest advisors. Further, those agencies involved in compiling this report, key portions of which have remained secret, were also responsible for lying to the 9/11 Commission, not just through omission. All the intelligence that sent America into two wars is now not just suspect, it is proven false."
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/12/22/congress-cites-911-bush-cover-up-demands-obama-act/

notlurking

Brave indeed, but don't be surprised if things start to happen in Egypt. The empire of chaos may not like this.

Croesus

with respect, Col. Lang,
given that -- "Many people here at SST are still horrified at the level of destruction wrought upon Iraq, Pakistan, etc. by the United States. As I have written before "you ain't seen nuttin yet." "

and

"Most Americans . . . really prefer overwhelming brute force and the complete destrction of enemies. The air campaigns of annhilation that we waged against Germany and Japan were not a fluke. We never really applied that level of force in the recent wars. The possibilities available are virtually unlimited."

Does the possibility exist that the "religious reform" that is needed exists in the destroyer as well as, or even more than, the target of "destruction by brute force?"

turcopolier

Croesus and catmck

"Does the possibility exist that the "religious reform" that is needed exists in the destroyer as well as, or even more than, the target of "destruction by brute force?""

I am discussing reality. You are describing your ideals. pl

jonst

Tyler, check this out if have a minute. You have to hand it to the author....he writes 'outloud' and in a clear voice, what others (some) on the Left often hint at.

Its the white guy's fault.

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/01/in-the-wake-of-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/

AEL

Sisi is riding a tiger and he hopes to turn it into a zebra before he has to get off. I'll go fetch the popcorn.

CatMack

Dear Colonel,

After walking around for a while, I find “realism” of all scenarios that I could conceive and which apply the full might of the modern Western state rather questionable. Even if the military, political and logistic considerations can be worked out, they all promptly lead to cultural and civilizational degeneration of those engaged. I am certainly not experienced or imaginative enough to comprehend what is really possible, though. Would you be so kind and indulge us with one or two examples of the “forbidden options” that were under your consideration?

I have an idea for a nonviolent way of addressing the challenge to the West posed by Islam and diffusing the conflict. I posit that our elites should become followers of the Prophet Mohammad. They are to a person atheists, so I would not call this conversion, rather finding faith again. Anyhow, this has been done in the past to solve geopolitical issues and, if I look at my own neighborhood, typically with good results.

Best regards,

CatMack

Tyler

Cat,

A proponent of letting people solve their own damn problems without the Children's Crusade telling them how to.

The problem is that many many Muslims want the conveniences of First World living while demanding everyone adhere to the most outrageous parts a 7th century code of behavior. The two ideals cannot be resolved, though the Left would like to pretend if people just bled less offensively we would be alright.

As I said in the previous thread, if Muslims will not assimilate they will be repatriated. If they will not repatriate than what the atheist Brevik did will look like a warm up.

Westerners take a while to get going against a threat, but when they do the end game is always capitulation and annihilation. As the good Colonel pointed out, Islam can fix itself or it will be fixed by the West.

turcopolier

CatMack

"Would you be so kind and indulge us with one or two examples of the “forbidden options” that were under your consideration?" No. You think yourself clever. Work it out. pl

William R. Cumming

Wondering why most of the population of the Islamic world seems to want to "invade" and change the Western World? Why not stay home?

I view the religions of the Western World and perhaps all the world as tied to the religions of CAPITALISM and Communism!

Adam Smith and David Hume worried that CAPITALISM would be destroyed by GREED! So did MARX! Why?

FB Ali

Col Lang,

With respect, I would suggest that your characterisation of the inflexibility of Sunni Islam is perhaps based on your experience of it in the Middle East. The majority of the Sunni Muslim population lives elsewhere, and it's beliefs and practice have evolved and adapted to changing times and circumstances; I refer to Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Central Asia, etc.

Of course, the virus of Salafi/Wahhabi belief has been exported to these areas (thanks largely to Saudi money, US Cold War moves in Afghanistan, and Gen Zia-ul-Haq) and has infected some groups there. But these are a minority. Unfortunately, because of the impact of their violence on Western consciousness (sensationalized by the media), the impression has been created that all Muslims are of this same type.

As for US retribution, I agree that the US military is eminently capable of destruction. However, so far that has not proven very successful in eradicating troublesome beliefs or their practitioners. I would doubt that even the US military would be capable of destroying 1.7 billion or so Muslims worldwide.

I also doubt very much that al-Sisi and Al Azhar are in any position to 'reform' Islam, except perhaps the version officially adopted by the Egyptian state.


blowback

"Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible."

Tweet from Rupert Mudoch

Surely, it's also time that Rupert Murdoch be held responsible to his media empires support for the murderous war in Iraq perhaps along the lines of the "justice" meted out to Julius Streicher, the founder and publisher of Der Stürmer.

And he does understand the origin of that cancer, the Faustian past between the Saudi royal family, the Wahhabists and the government of the United States.

cville reader

Is the "non-adaptation to a changing world that has been deeply characteristic of Sunni Islam for a millennium and more" inherent in the nature of their faith, or due more to other historical circumstances?

I don't know the answer this, but am merely posing the question. Why is is that my faith, which claims to be true, seems to have been able adapt over time, but Islam (or at least parts of it) haven't.

Fred

anna-marina,

The killing of 3,000 American's on 9-11 by salifist jihadists was not caused by actions of the US government that occurred after the streets of NYC were full of rubble and dead bodies.

turcopolier

cville reader

"or due more to other historical circumstances" Perhaps you should educate yourself. try Hodgson, "The Venture of Islam." Sunni Islam turned away from adaptation during the Abbasid Caliphate and has never successfully navigated something like the Reformation. Read up before you come back here. pl

turcopolier

blowback

Since you choose to insult me so vilely you are banned. pl

CatMack

Tyler,

This is something I struggle with. Which ones would you keep? Which ones would you repatriate? Who says someone is a "unassimilated" Muslim? Is this self-declared? Do we look in DHS records if one ever asked for halal meal while buying an airline ticket? I do it routinely to run away from chicken or pasta monotony.

Are you fully assimilated with the current society and designs for its next version?

I try to run a small business where a third of employees are Muslim. It would tank immediately. Who would be taking care of all the elderly French, Brits, Swedes and Germans? Even in the U.S. there are probably 7 or so million Muslim. Would you have good Colonel organize a posse? Would you ask me to join it, bring my Sig and AR and some ammo and start rounding up people from mosque on Shirley Gate in Fairfax next Friday? Or maybe set-up a trap in Assal Market in Vienna?

I urge you to read about “repatriations” of Cossacks and White Russians after WWII, a relatively small operation compared to what we consider here. There is a good book, The Secret Betrayal by Nikolai Tolstoy on that subject. I presume you are Christian. Would you obey an order to load a family of six into a cattle car bound for a detention camp?

Whose interest would all this commotion really serve? Yours? Who exactly declared Islam a mortal threat to me or you? I am somewhat fuzzy on this. Was this announced on Fox, CBS or MSNBC?

I do not know answers to questions above. I am somehow weary that marginal failures and expected blow-backs of imperial policies are used to cover deeper problems and stir the spirit for another Kristallnacht.

Best,

CatMack

turcopolier

fb ali

With respect and affection, Sunni Islam is equally backward looking in Pakistan, Afghanistan and anywhere else that Western colonialism and education have not spread its influences. in turkey, once a bastion of modernism the forces of regression are so far triumphant. You, yourself are evidence of the way in which Sunni Islam is completely capable of modernization and your views on religion would hardly be considered orthodox in most Sunni circles. pl

turcopolier

catmack

I never suggested anything like your thought of deporting people based on religion. "there are probably 7 or so million Muslims" There are not anything like 7 million Muslims in the US. You, too,are banned for insult. .According to Pew there are 2 million Muslims in the US, .6% of the population and a large number of them belong to various heterodox African American sects. you are obviously a Muslim propagandist. pl

VietnamVet

Colonel,

True. To win wars it takes overwhelming force. A true Crusade would tax the rich, free the oppressed, draft soldiers and bring the rule of law to mankind. This is the exact opposite of what is happening today.

My personal opinion is that, except for psychotic neocons and religious true believers, nuclear war makes Crusades impossible. Therefore, the chaos in our world is the culmination of all the scams that enrich the world’s plutocrats.

Babak Makkinejad

A retired Paksitani Air-Marshall told me that a discussion around the possibility of adjusting the fasting hours for higher latitudes - where the days are much longer than say in Lahore - would get one murdered in Pakistan.

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