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13 December 2014


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Change we couldn't believe in. How crass this administration has become.

Charles I

Well it works for Wall Street. . .

Stan Henning

From what I am seeing it is clear that America is not immune to the sad manners of operation seen in other countries. However, to keep our wonderful country above this sad state of affairs we need leaders who have the foundation and fortitude to get out of the ditch and operate in a manner that keeps our country where our forefathers had sought to establish and maintain. It looks now like we have started to go off the track. Come on leaders, let's get back to preserving American ideals and not see us slip into the ditch of no return.


Charles I

I am here to oppose that. pl


Stan, Paul Craig Roberts has a wonderful perspective on what I would call "American Ideals" http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/12/12/brink-war-economic-collapse-paul-craig-roberts/

Stan Henning

Yes, our education system must take considerable blame for the current state of affairs - education is more than learning details about different fields of work but also how to act as responsible citizens. We need to focus on this now - we appear to be already slipping into the mire!!!


My first thought, too....

William R. Cumming

Does not accountability start at the top? Articles of Impeachment could be introduced whether or not conviction! What did he know and when did he know it?


It is rather apparent that the rule of law no longer exists. Government officials and oligarchs as well as favored corporations are exempt.

Only the American people can restore it. Do they have the will?



"...if you let them get away with it, their successors will do the same things."

Yes sir. It can't be many steps to see this type of conduct used against our own citizens.


Colonel, TTG,

Did you see the Mother Jones article regarding it?



In the Gunpowder Plot torture, generally forbidden by law as an investigatory tool, could only be used with the permission of the Sovereign. King James I obliged but urged only the gentlest of methods necessary to achieve the desired results.

Human progress appears to be tortuously slow.


I wonder how many of those here remember these, since many of you are my age (65) or older:




I also wonder how many young men and women volunteered and suffered for this folly or lost their homes and/or their parents' homes while Bush cleared his ranch of brush and Andy Card vacationed in Maine.

It would seem to me that house cleaning needs to start at the top.

cville reader

Wasn't that the original intent of those supporting universal education? It wasn't to provide fodder for the job market.

Beware of the Common Core Standards and those that support them.


I agree, house cleaning needs to start at the top. But it would appear that Obama's mercurial rise to the top occurred precisely because the inner circle supporting him knew that he would not lead. Not now, not ever.

And so the nation faces many crises--torturers run amok, banks run amok, spooks, neocons, defense contractors, etc. all run amok.

Meanwhile the President presides over the debacle. Occasionally he delivers a well crafted, well articulated speech. But, far from the halcyon mirage of "yes, we can," now he feeds the American people a steady diet of "no, we can't."

No, we can't enforce the law. No, we can't get the economy moving. No, we can't stay out of stupid wars.

Discontent is rising and is being openly expressed among opinion shapers closer and closer to the beltway elites. That the Washington Post allowed Roth's opinion to be published is significant. Meanwhile, Simon Johnson, former chief economist of the World Bank writes that "Citigroup will be broken up."

Question is, has the noose tightened around the necks of this bunch of beltway bandits enough for them to see the error of their ways? Or will their hubris and pigheadedness simply lead to their taking us all down with them?

dilbert dogbert

I know Col. Lang is appalled at armed service personnel involvement in torture. Hopefully another profession will take a hard look at its members involvement: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/psychologists_role_in_the_cia_s_torture_why_these_medical_professionals.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_top
But again I remember the old saying: A fish rots from the head down.


In 2010 we had this debate, and the MSM ordained as fact that torturers who were just following orders are immune from legal consequences. Maybe the MSM will now change their minds about it.



Ms. Johnsen’s nomination had been closely watched because the Office of Legal Counsel has the power to tell the president and other executive officials whether actions would be lawful. Officials who rely on its secret opinions are essentially safe from prosecution — even if the office’s legal pronouncements are later deemed to be incorrect.

This idea of legal immunity still sticks in my craw. Where did this idea come from? Why and How was it promulgated in the media? Did the CIA operate a domestic media-influencing program similar to the (probably illegal) US military press-influencing program during Bush's term?

Nancy K

Just like the administration before it. Reminds me of ending of Animal Farm except in this case the voters looked from Republican to Democrat and could not tell the difference.

Nancy K

Don't parents have some responsibility? It is easy to blame teachers or the educational system when citizens and politicians act poorly. We are all to blame; finger pointing is easy.


Politicians are spineless individuals that will say or do anything to further their personal agenda but they are generally smart enough to put individuals in charge of agencies to assume responsibilities. In the case of USA acts of torture there were seven individuals that accepted the responsibility as DCI since 2011 and it is they that should be prosecuted for these acts and let the chips fall as they may. Once this is achieved their successors will think twice before taking this country down that road again.

I'm heartened by a TV advertisement this morning where six experienced individuals in Interrogation spoke on the fact that Torture does not work.


The sources of these rulings are discussed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_Memos

The key names are Yoo and Bybee. Their opinions led to the torture ("enhanced interrogation")being carried out off US soil, thus Guantanamo as the site. I am not a lawyer, but I was brought up to see torture as inherently evil, and I am old enough to recall the French suppression of rebels in Algeria. When the use of torture in this suppression became public knowledge in France, there was outrage leading to France abandoning its hold on Algeria.

I can also recall the Eichmann trial and Hannah Arendt's coverage of it along with her reference to "the banality of evil." This may also be of interest: http://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html.


Correction...2001 versus 2011



IMO the French left Algeria because DeGaulle correctly decided that the time of Western empires was ended and that resistance is Algeria would begin again after a time. I just heard Yoo say on FZ GPS that Justice did not authorize the "techniques' used by CIA and that those who had done such things are "legally exposed." pl

Charles I

You inspire us all, or me, at least.

Charles Dekle

Col Lang,
I really don't have anything to add other than I believe that you and the other SST members are absolutely correct to demand justice. The perpetrators should be indicted, tried, and imprisoned for their crimes. The only other thing that I can say is that my heart is very heavy.
Kind regards,

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