« "ISIL launches chlorine gas strikes in Iraq’s Anbar province" Press TV | Main | Afghanistan: how long until collapse? »

26 December 2014


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Peter C

The NATO countries continue to treat Turkey as if nothing was going on.

A major F 35 heavy repair facility in Turkey was recently announced.

"Turkey will take the lead on maintenance of the Pratt and Whitney F135 engine and establish the necessary infrastructure to perform tear-down, rebuild and test by 2018. Within two years of that deadline, Norway and the Netherlands are to have established the same capability." flightgolbal.org

FB Ali

Col Lang,

"He has recently made agreements with the Shia run government in Baghdad".

To the extent Erdogan has influence over IS, he will prevent them from attacking Shia areas of Iraq (and also Iran). (It is also quite possible that IS already has no intention of doing so). Thus, Erdogan can increase Turkey's relations with Iraq and Iran, and vice versa.

I agree that this is bad news for the Kurds.

(Incidentally, the charges have been withdrawn against the young man. Someone reined in the over-zealous police chief involved).

Ishmael Zechariah

Quite a few Turks also wonder why the tayyiban and their thief-in-chief are not criticized by the powers that be and/or their propaganda apparatus, especially given their particularly egregious violations of "democracy". I would appreciate any insight those in-the-know can shed on this issue.

In the meantime the Kurds are well on their way to becoming a second Israel, beloved by the West and hated by the natives. They, too, have interesting allies:


Without a well-heeled, and well-connected, diaspora they might find the local climate somewhat unhealthy once their masters depart.

Ishmael Zechariah

different clue

Ishmael Zechariah,

Aren't the Kurds native there as well? In fact, aren't the Kurds just as native as anyone else there and more native than some? So maybe their future status should be expressed as " hated by the other natives"? (One hopes it turns out not to be so, of course).

I have zero inside knowledge of Turkey. I can only guess that the NATO governments pretend nothing is wrong in hopes that the Erdogist regime won't downgrade relations with them, leave NATO, cut off all basing contact, and join the SCO. Their longest range hope is that if they whistle along long enough, that somehow an internal coalition of Kemalists, liberal urban youth, Gulenists, Alavis, and recently disaffected Kurds can somehow de-Ergoize and re-Secularise the dominating government structures and perhaps large parts of the society after that. That's just a layman's guess, of course.


The latest news has reported that charges haven't been dropped. He has been released from custody and will be tried. So will 4 other youths who opened up banners with similar statements in Ankara, outside the Ministry of Justice Building.

Moreover, it turns out that a public prosecutor in Konya, who refused to lay charges on MEA, was promptly reassigned to another province, as punishment.

Interesting times, let see how many stupid things Tayyip and co. continue to do, due to hubris taking over.

Babak Makkinejad

Turks are in demand against Iran, Russia, Syria, ISIS - EU and US know this and cannot push Turkey around much more...

On the other hand, Turkish economy is crucially dependent on timely infusion of cash and credit from the EU banks - there is only so far that they could go from US and EU.

Turkey does not have in it to follow Iran into a path of strategic independence - that will-to-power does not exist in Turkey - in my opinion.

When push comes to shove, they will gravitate back into NATO fold; even now they are supporting the brain-damaged Syrian policy of US, EU, and Arabs...

Babak Makkinejad

Is there more or less corruption in Turkish government under AKP or under previous governments?

When the Army was running the show in 1980s; where the Generals running a clean administration?

This is truly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Ishmael Zechariah

Different Clue,

Two points:

1-You are right: various Kurdish tribes, with dialects unintelligible to each other, and with no history of getting along with each other, have lived in the region for a long time. The current "Independent Kurdistan" idea, however, is strictly a Western construct, conceived and executed by outsiders. In this construct, since the cantons Kurds have traditionally lived in are completely landlocked, opening a Mediterranean corridor was envisioned. This opening failed, much to the delight of the "natives" living in the said corridor. These "natives" also have not forgotten the Kurdish actions in the Western invasion and destruction of Iraq, or their role in Fallujah, Kerkuk, Mosul and elsewhere. For these reasons the collaborationist Kurds are truly hated by "other natives" and will pay a price for their actions if/when their masters depart.

2-The probability of "an internal coalition of Kemalists, liberal urban youth, Gulenists, Alavis, and recently disaffected Kurds can somehow de-Ergoize and re-Secularise the dominating government structures" is null or less. You might note that most Alawis are secular Kemalists, along with the majority of urban youth; the young man who was arrested for calling tayyip a thief left detention with the words "I am a soldier of Mustafa Kemal". For the secularists the "Gulenists and recently disaffected (separatist) Kurds" are no better than the tayyiban.

I still do not understand the current silence of the Western Elites about the actions of the Turkish kleptocracy.

Ishmael Zechariah

Ishmael Zechariah

1-While it might not be visible to those viewing the world through islamic-tinted glasses, there has been significantly more corruption in Turkey, with attendant degeneration of the state structures under the tayyiban kleptocracy than other times past.

2-IMO we should call out all pots, kettles, and those throwing acid on girls to preserve modesty (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/10/iran-media-backlash-acid-attack-coverage.html )as being what they are.

Ishmael Zechariah

different clue

Ishmael Zechariah,

I did not know that the secular-Kemalists and Alavis were often the same people. I had thought that they were two different groups of people which could add up to bigger numbers.

Could the Erdogist regime and its Erdogist fans and mobs get so bad, awful and dangerous that the Kemalists would set aside their hatred for the Gulenists and disaffected Kurds long enough for all those numbers to add up to a force capable of undermining the Erdogists and tearing them down? Or would a tactical setting aside of hatred for the Gulenists and disaffected Kurds be too painful to bear even for the reward of tearing down the Erdogists?

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you for your comments.

From an Islamic-tainted view point, AKP as well as its supporters have been a colossal failure - the AKP ruling leaders have been complicit in destroying the livelihoods of millions of Muslims in Syria as well as making them miserable refugees.

The AKP supporters, on the other hand, have been members of that silent majority that evidently saw nothing wrong with ruining the lives of Muslims as long as their own livelihoods improved under AKP leadership.

Indeed Turkey has done quite well under AKP.

And the scarf-wearing women and girls are now safe everywhere in Turkey.

As though women in scarves are the supreme expression of religious Truths of Islam.

The piece to which you have supplied a link goes into the heart of Islam as a civilization and as a religion; what is more important: "Standing up to small deviations from the presumed orthodox practices or standing up for Truth and Justice?"

For many Muslims, it seems, making sure women are conforming to orthodoxy is more important to stand up and ask for freedom of press or assembly - or just simple opposition to maleficence of the government - such as Turkey's or Saudi Arabia's or Qatar's in ruining and destroy lives of Muslims (and Christians).

 Ishmael Zechariah

Different Clue,

"Gulenists and disaffected Kurds" were supporting the tayyiban and their thief-in chief until last year. Most prostitutes are far more honorable than these "allies".

Ishmael Zechariah

different clue

Ishmael Zechariah,

Well . . . okay then.


I doubt that your assessment of corruption as a rather recent or more prominent feature in Turkey can stand up to a close historical inspection. But maybe times change?

Just as your idea that Kurdish independence is a Western idea. Like Israel/Judea is both part of the Judaism and a creation of Europe?

But your aka is rather interesting.

Ishmael Zechariah


The following might help:


Ishmael Zechariah

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

September 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30      
Blog powered by Typepad