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14 December 2014

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turcopolier

dubhaltach

One of the advantages of NOT HAVING a parliamentary form of government is that the legislature cannot directly force the president's hand in matters of war and peace. pl

confusedponderer

Is that not also a lesson from ancient Greece?

Iirc a couple times the Athenians voted to destroy a rebellious colony, sent off their fleet and then changed their mind and had to send couriers after them to stop them.

The peril of the passion of the moment ...

turcopolier

CP

In this case, we "Athenians" cannot be sent to war by a council. pl

turcopolier

dubhaltach

All such resolutions are advisory in nature and not binding on the CinC. pl

turcopolier

CP

"as long as it doesn't amount to a formal declaration of war." even in the case of a declaration of war, the congress cannot command the armed forces. pl

confusedponderer

I see your point.

Aka

Piotr,
are really trolling or just unable comprehend what CP and Walrus is saying?

Aka

All,
any ideas about the current situation in Australia (hostage taking)?

Allegedly the hostage taker is demanding a ISIS flag, a broadcast call to Tony Abbot and for Australia to withdraw from ME adventures. While he maybe very serious about his intentions why do I get the feeling that the perp is a bit mental?

Valissa

Gerard, the 6 sponsors of Congress House Resolution 758 are listed here http://legiscan.com/US/sponsors/HR758/2013
Bill summary here http://legiscan.com/US/bill/HR758/2013

Primary sponsor: Rep Adam Kinzinger (R-IL 16th district)
Co-sponsor: Rep Steve Chabot (R-OH 1st district)
Co-sponsor: Rep Gerald Connolly (D-VA 11th district)
Co-sponsor: Rep Paul Cook (R-CA 8th district)
Co-sponsor: Rep John Shimkus (R-IL 15th district)
Co-sponsor: Rep Stockman (R-36th district)

For a bill which got such overwhelming bipartisan support I'm surprised there is only one D co-sponsor. It seems that in support of Pax Americana the republicans are happy to support Obama's foreign policy.

Although this bill is rather "meaningless" as PL states below, as it is merely a condemnation of Russia and support of Ukraine, it does show the rah-rah anti-Russia macho mentality of the congress and could be seen as paving the way for more serious legislation.

Fred

Piotr,

I believe Tyler made a reply once to someone’s comment on another thread about our need to support the Ukrainian government to effect that "the Azov Battalion is looking for volunteers, pick up a rifle and go". I used that line a couple of days ago at a Christmas party where a few inebriated liberals were all in support of “freedom” and US support for everything East of the Iron Curtain to overthrowing Assad! It was especially humorous for me since the two married gay guys from Ireland who were big cheerleaders for intervening in Ukraine and Syria had just berated me over the conduct of the US Army in Iraq not twenty minutes earlier. It kind of put a dent in the celebration to point out how little they really believed in that freedom when all they were willing to demand was to get others to fight for their values rather than pay the price themselves.

If Ukraine's current government is that important to you then go sign up to fight for it.

turcopolier

valissa

IMO when faced with the reality of possible nuclear war and briefings by DoD on the consequences of nuclear war the dummies will sober up a bit. pl

Anon E Mouse

Some updated info:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-15/sydney-siege-gunman-identified-iran-born-self-described-cleric-man-haron-monis

The whole thing stinks. Apparently there were 2 terrorists, one of whom has now disappeared, possibly amongst the 'escaped' hostages. The guy is supposedly Iranian (Shia) yet he wants an ISIS (extreme Sunni) flag. These two groups are now mortal enemies, so this does not make sense. My view is this is a false flag setup with a mentally unstable patsy. Why now?

Wednesday December 16 a UN session will discuss the Israel / Occupied Territories issue. Israel will do anything to stop official recognition of Palestine.

Piotr, Poland

Those US Congress words are nothing more than a strenghening of the political pressure on Russia to me.
Talk is cheap, even when written in documents. Can US Congress by themselves only give to Ukraine a NATO memebers privileges? No - they can only accept/not accept POTUS decision in that matter.

Re to the Donbass

I recognise the right of the people to secede after independent referedum, not because of the Zakhartchenko or other separatist commander will, and without his armed people in the polling stations (like it was during last "elections" in Donetsk and Luhansk "Republics").

I repeated this question here a few times, but still haven't got an answer: can you show me just one (or more, if you know any) political body in the Donbass area, representing Russian minority, who called for seceding from Ukraine during Yanukovych times or earlier?

Separatism is not the one day phenomenon, it needs long time to mature, before separatists decide to take military action.

Political claims of seceding are always the first stage of it. And when the Center is deaf to this voice, separatists in Province gradually radicalise their actions, to the military action at the end of the process, isn't it?

In Donetsk we can easilly find the end of the process (military action), but where is the beginning? Where were those large groups of Russian minority saying - we want autonomy or secession before Maidan times?
Sorry - Donetsk and Luhansk "separatists" are Russian artificial creation to me, or rather as the "Ukrainian street" says it: they are Yanukovych mercenaries, pretending separatist movement.

Piotr, Poland

Let me answer the same style to you - if seceding of Novorussia is so important to you, why don't you join the separatists? Kosacks looking for volunteers!

Servicing in other armies than Polish is strictly forbidden for Polish citizens.
We have 2 volunteers here under prosecutor's investigation. First serves as volunteer in Ukrainian battalion, second in one of the separatists divisions. Both will be imprisoned if they come back to Poland

confusedponderer

"political body in the Donbass area, representing Russian minority, who called for seceding from Ukraine during Yanukovych times or earlier?"

That's so obvious that you shouldn't need somebody else to answer it for you:

They didn't need to call for secession because there was no point - they felt, were, included and represented in the government. That changed with the coup in which they were practically excluded from power.

The change of power in Ukraine did not take place in accordance with the Ukrainian constitution at the time. Why should the Russian half of the population accept the outcome?

Even more so considering the rhetoric directed at them. Just take the language law that was proposed right after the coup - making Ukrainian the official language just as if Russian culture, part of Ukraine for centuries (the Russian empire having been founded in Kiev), didn't matter. It didn't make it into law, but it's hard to say 'you don't matter anymore' in clearer terms.

One of the things the US and the EU both didn't grasp was just how virulently nationalist the people who jumped on the EU protest bandwagon were.

I ask you again: Would you stand by idly if you saw Poles across the border being treated as the West Ukrainians treat the Donbass or would you do something about it?

Dismayed

Well spoken!

Valissa

PL, while that's probably true, the US can cause alot of mischief without going through congress at all.

Here is Dana Rohrabacher's sober assessment of the situation with Russia… Why I Voted against Condemning Russia http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-i-voted-against-condemning-russia-11828

Charles I

It raises expectations which leads to rash decisions based on illusion. The rest we know. . .

Fred

Piotr,

I did my two tours on active duty thank you. Novorussia has zero importance to me, but it sure has some for the neocon crowd who run the National Endowment for Democracy. Similarly it is important to various members of the State Department, members of Congress and the Senate. I did not vote for any of those and engage my elected representatives in Congress and the Senate to ensure they don't keep pushing this war mongering. I urge you to do the same with your elected officials. Get them to raise taxes on Polish citizens to fund the Polish armed forces to defend whatever it is you think needs defending. Just don't ask me to defend your or pay your bills.

robt willmann

ex-PFC Chuck, CP,

As Col. Lang noted, Resolution 758 is non-binding and has no legal effect. Sometimes these things are passed as a psychological technique to condition and soften up Congress on an issue so that if and when the real law comes up, they will be more likely to vote for it. The Israeli lobby uses this tactic and tries to get Congress to pass wild-eyed resolutions about Iran or some other subject, and then they are publicly committed to a particular position and it is harder for them to change course if the matter comes up for Congressional action.

The problem here is that HR.5859 is the real thing and will go to president Obama to sign into law. The Senate did pass it Saturday night, as the legislative website has been updated--

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/5859/all-actions

This proposed law is only the public part of what is going on with Ukraine. There may also be secret presidential "findings" that authorize covert action and money regarding Ukraine under the National Security Act of 1947, previously and in the future.

Piotr, Poland

Are you sure, the danger for Russians in Eastern Ukraine was so serious?
Russian minority was really so determined for fight for secession, or somebody, artificially "helped them to understand" they need to be determined?
Have you read this? This is shortcut from long Girkin-Strelkov interview to Russian imperialists "Zavtra" (Tomorrow) newspaper:

" "I was the one who pulled the trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published Thursday with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views.

"If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out — like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, who uses that nom-de-guerre meaning "Shooter" to replace his last name Girkin, was quoted as saying.

"There would have been several dozen killed, burned, detained. And that would have been the end of it. But the flywheel of the war, which is continuing to this day, was spun by our unit. We mixed up all the cards on the table," he said.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine/511584.html

If Russian minority was so endangered by Kiyev, as you claim it, than why they needed Girkin and his mercenaries to begin this domestic war? If I'm in lethal danger, I don't need others to push me for defending myself, its the matter of my life or death, isn't it?

Imagine

Bulletproof vests are made by the hard-working serious operator supply company Diamondback Tactical, headed by S. Kappes (former Deputy Director of the CIA), Andrew Bair (former Special Advisor for Counter-Terrorism to the Sec. State) and Devon Archer (former fundraiser for John Kerry, current director of Burisma). A felicitous coincidence that could end up producing jobs and profits for investors if they happen to get a contract. FYI.

Imagine

Former Polish President Aleksander Kwaśniewski is the #2 board member of Burisma. It's personal.

confusedponderer

Ever considered that Strelkov is an adventurer and self promoter? Just saying.

Piotr, Poland

Of course! Wars are full of self promoters. But have you heard anything about Girkin/Strelkov adventures in Bosnia 90's? No? He was so called "military advisor" to Serbian Chetnics, Bosnians identified him lately. Isn't it strange, he is not vaunting about this episode of his life?
Self promoters mostly boasting all of their life episodes.....

And you, have you ever considered Russians can exaggerate Rusian minority troubles in Eastern Ukraine for their own purposes?
It's their usuall policy in every country with Russian minority. They use Russian minority as the mean of the pressure (Latvia, Lithuania etc.)...

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