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01 November 2014

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blowback

At least the Bush regime was open about this:
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Translation: "We lie. While you attempt to correct our lie, we lie again and every one forgets the first lie".

With the vast majority of MSM being propaganda tools of the current Washington regime (in that I include both Democrats and Republicans), it works every time.

Piotr, Poland

Sorry Colonel for disapointing you about MH17:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-intelligence-blames-pro-russian-separatists-for-mh17-downing-a-997972.html

rjj

And will continue to do so as long as people willingly pay good money to feed at their smorgasbord of bullshit.

confusedponderer

Piotr, Poland,
I wrote that, not the Col.

The point I make is that it was not ***Russia*** that did this, as for instance the US cheerfully, if in deliberately ambiguous language, claimed at the time, flatly conflating separatists with the Russian government, and making the latter responsible for all actions of the former.

By that standard the US are responsible for all actions by the Ukrainian government, and given the Ukies conduct, I doubt DC wants that.

The liklihood is that the BND is right. It also means that the separatists shot the airliner down in error. Which means it was a bloody mistake.

If you are interested ... the most likely reason why separatists must have felt the need to operate air defence systems in the first place is because they were being bombed by the Kiev government.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/05/27/ukrainian-offensive-donetsk/

The implication, trivial as it is on the face of it, is that 'the Kiev government bombed their own people', which is one of the boilerplate justifications for regime change, usually triggering US spokespersons uttering the phrase 'that they lost their legitimacy to govern'. Oddly, not so in the case of Ukraine.

makosog

So this might be a case of a Big Lie that was committed:

A great example of the Big Lie, which the Nazi tried to master as a propaganda technique.

See below:

Tell an outrageous lie so that a majority of people will be shocked and wonder how the left could tell such outrageous lies and then repeat them over and over again until those same people will not be shocked anymore and thus perceive the lie to be the truth.

Seamus Padraig

Sorry for disappointing you on MH17, Piotr, but just like John Kerry, the BND furnished NO EVIDENCE to back up their claim. And even if it was a BUK system, that doesn't prove it was the rebels that did it--the Ukrainian Army has admitted having BUK systems.

Aka

Piotr,
well I hope they did a better job than the US intelligence before the 2003 iraq invasion :) .

And spiegel, surely that is not the news publication that got a reprimand from the Council for German Press for using the pictures of MH 17 victims to promote a political agenda.

spiegel cover in question: http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/derSpiegel-stopPutin.jpg

FB Ali

A revealing book by a former Frankfurter Allgemeine editor describes graphically how the Western media is corrupted into becoming propaganda vehicles for these intelligence operations. An interview with him is at:

http://tinyurl.com/nnsjvdh

David Habakkuk

Piotr, Poland:

You really must not jump to the conclusion that the Kiev authorities are lying without better evidence.

Following the 'Spiegel' story, the Kyiv Post reported that the Ukrainian Defence Ministry 'has denied media reports claiming, with reference to the German magazine Spiegel, that the Malaysian airliner flying over Donetsk region on July 17, 2014, could have been shot down with a Buk missile system which the militia had reportedly captured from a Ukrainian military unit.'

(See http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-military-denies-claims-malaysian-boeing-was-shot-down-with-captured-ukrainian-missile-system-368712.html .)

Unfortunately, the body of the report is behind a subscription wall, and the only version I can find of the Defence Ministry statement is on that notorious Russian propaganda station RT.

(See http://rt.com/news/197592-german-report-mh17-ukraine/ .)

However, it appears that RT's suggestion that the Kiev authorities continue to deny, as they have all along, that any of their Buks were captured by insurgents is likely to be accurate, given that the Kyiv Post also features, and links to, an interesting report on the www.mashable.com site.

This site describes itself as 'the leading media company for the connected generation and the voice of digital culture.' Its Chief Strategy Officer is Adam Ostrow, and its Chief Operating Officer Michael Kriak.

While the official Kiev position certainly remains that all Ukrainian Buks were accounted for, mashable claim to have been told unofficially by 'two top officials in Ukraine's security structures' that the separatists had obtained four Ukrainian Buk systems.

However, according to mashable, 'both officials said the systems were rendered inoperable before they were captured and insisted that it was a Russian-supplied system that took the plane down.'

(For the Kyiv Post report, which links to the mashable account, see http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/mashable-germany-says-pro-russian-rebels-in-ukraine-downed-mh17-with-captured-missiles-368680.html .)

David Habakkuk

CP,

A fine piece which I need to think about.

One thing that strikes me is that palpable disintegration in the West of concern for objective truth is in part a manifestation of the absence of any vivid sense that policies based on fictions can blow up in one's face.

It is the collapse of the ability realistically to define danger – to avoid either a hysterical hyping of dangers which may have some substance but are not apocalyptic, and a neglect of dangers which are real and serious but not susceptible of being presented in hysterical slogans – which I find both intensely alarming and profoundly puzzling.

One quibble, to which I will return, relates to your use of the term 'idealists', without inverted commas, in your conclusion. It is obviously too cynical simply to dismiss professions of 'idealism'. But not infrequently, they can serve to veil other less lovely motives.

I would not trust the benevolence of Ambassador Power one inch.

mike

CP -

I share your conviction that the American press has contributed to agitprop on both the MH17 and the Maidan sniping. Thus breeding fear and bad policy.

OTOH, Ghouta, not so much. Seymour Hersch certainly deserves the Pulitzer he won for reporting My Lai. But even that story was handed to him. The Army, the press, and some in Congress had been investigating it for a year when Hersch stumbled onto it. Warrant Officer Thompson and his crew chief and door-gunner, Specialists Andreotta and Colburn, were the ones who broke the story not Hersch. And since Hersch's reporting has constantly gone down hill. Even long prior to Ghouta Hersch has often been alleged to have used feeble research and suspicious and unreliable sources. Many assertions he has made have been proven false. What kind of investigative reporter relies on hearsay information?

I for one will stick with the opinions of Chuck Hagel and the American, Brit, German, & French intel services rather than the RT and Mr Hersch and Rush Limbaugh.

bwilli123

Kolomoysky: Sorry about the MH17 – but it is a trifle – ENG SUBS
http://youtu.be/NrfKZUttEwE

ex-PFC Chuck

David,
Speaking of policies blowing up in one's face, Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism has a post up today channeling Michael Hudson on the unintended consequences of the sanctions on Russia:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/11/michael-hudson-europe-to-pay-for-the-whole-mess-in-ukraine.html

curtis

All media are such, deal with it.

curtis

It is like the old joke about Chinese food. Wonderful to eat but not very filling so one wants more right away.

Slinging bullshit is part of being in power, ALL administrations do it, U.S. and otherwise. You can't remain in power ANYWHERE for any length of time w/o doing so. The sooner people admit this to themselves the better off we shall all be.

curtis

"...What kind of investigative reporter relies on hearsay information?..."

ALL of them at one time or another. Never forget that.

David Habakkuk

mike,

Certainly Hersh's analysis begs some questions.

However, you may note that Porton Down at no point issued any kind of denial of the claims he made.

As to the scientific arguments, you might care to look at the detailed investigation carried out on the 'Who Attacked Ghouta?' blog which was run by 'sasa wawa'.

I have not – yet – had time to study it with the care it deserves, but it presents a mass of detailed scientific evidence supporting Hersh's scepticism about the notion that the Assad regime was responsible for the Ghouta atrocity.

(See http://whoghouta.blogspot.co.uk/ .)

jld

Another "oopsie"...
https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/528139898281144320

Babak Makkinejad

In the English language, there are alternative sources of news and analysis that are available through the Internet.

Some of these sources are based in US - the US Think-Thanks publish the thinking of their staff all the time - and some are based in Japan, or Russia or China.

I fear that Europeans are far worse off than Americans or the Englishmen in having access to alternative news and analysis in French, German, Spanish, or Italian.

I am willing to venture that the typical European is probably far too ill-informed than a typical American.

Babak Makkinejad

An "Empire"; the project of the Universal Empire that the Great King started but ended in failure 200 years later keeps on getting resurrected.

The mantle of the Great King is assumed on and on and the project is revived, to disintegrate again and again and again.

This much is clear:

Men Never Learn Anything From History.

Misanthrope

David H,

"One thing that strikes me is that palpable disintegration in the West of concern for objective truth is in part a manifestation of the absence of any vivid sense that policies based on fictions can blow up in one's face."

That's because, while the policies frequently blow up in someone's face, it's never in the faces of those who advocated and pursued those policies. It's always in the faces of 'people who don't matter', whether that be citizens of whichever country is being torn apart or western citizens caught up in kidnappings or terrorist attacks in retribution.

In fact we can take this further and suggest that the reason we have so many thoroughly despicable individuals in positions of power is that there are never any bad consequences to those people for their behaviour. There is no 'accountability'. We are always told that, "they are held accountable at the ballot box", but on the one hand they frequently aren't and on the other hand the activities they partake in would be more suitably punished by a firing squad than being able to walk away into the sunset retaining all their ill gotten gains and future earnings from speeches/public appearances.

Piotr, Poland

@ Confuseponderer, Seamus Padraig & all

Once again - I'm very sorry to make you sad, but you idealise (very strong idealise!!) separatists. They are somehow guilty about MH17.
I don't have exact evidences, only presumptive ones, but strong. Strong enough to me

1 In July I followed Strelkov.info on Twitter, just for being well informed. And I've read it LIVE on my own eyes (remember I can speak and read Russian, probably better than English, as you see it here :-) ), before it disappeared but somebody copied and saved it, and this is what you can see there:


https://twitter.com/chastime/status/489797003246051328

My own translation of it:
"17th of Jul, 17.50 moscow time
Near Thorez area we've just downed An-26 airplane, remains wallow somewhere near the "Progress" mine.
We've forewarned - Don't fly on "our skies"!
And this is a video showing the "falling of the bird" as an evidence.
The bird has fallen somewhere behind mine's piles, far from any living area, so peacefull people didn't suffer at all.
And there is another information about second downed airplane, probably similar to SU jet type"

OK. I'm wise enough to understand, somebody other than Strelkov (for example UKR intelligence) could prepare this, but seing it LIVE a few minutes before it disappeared from official Strelkov info site gives rather small probability to it.

So time for the next presumptive evidence:

2.
Rusvesna.su site (rusvesna - abbreviation from Ruskaya Vyesna - The Russian Spring, and "su" domain is based on sentiment some Russians have to Soviet Union) -it's the site informing from Russian point of view on what happened in Novorossiya in Russian, English, German and French languages. They work to this moment, so you can read fresh news there too.

This is an interview with Strelkov in Russian language only, you can't find it in other languages, looks like this interview was for domestical purposes (for Russians) only.
Use Google or Bing Translator,please to read it in English for checking me if I'm saying the truth, hope automatic translator can do it good enough.
Interview was done "18.07.2014 - 13:38" (18th of Jul, a day after MH17 disaster, so it was still very fresh theme:

http://rusvesna.su/news/1405676334

My own translation of few quotes:

The Title :"Igor Strelkov: part of the people from Boeing [i.e. MH17 - Piotr]died a few hours BEFORE the disaster"

First Strelkov told interviewer he has information about SU-27 airplane downed passenger airplane.
And now the most interested:

"По данным людей, которые собирали трупы, значительная часть трупов — „несвежая“ — люди умерли до нескольких суток тому назад. "

According to the people, who collected dead bodies, most of the bodies were "stale" or "not fresh" - people died a few hours before

Во-вторых, в самолете было обнаружено большое количество медикаментов, сыворотки крови и прочего, что нехарактерно для обычного лайнера. Похоже, что имел место медицинский спец-груз.

Second - there were big number of medications and serums etc in airplane, not typical for passenger liner. Looks like airplane had special medicine cargo.

В-третьих, ни на чем не настаиваю (пока). Просто буквально сейчас беседовал с двумя людьми [...]Они подчеркнули, что множество трупов оказались „совсем бескровные“ — как будто кровь свернулась задолго до катастрофы. Также отмечали и сильнейший трупный запах

Third, and this is I'm not sure (to this moment). I've just conversed with 2 people[...] They maintained, many of the bodies were "bloodless", looks like blood flew away from the bodies long before the disaster. The bodies had strong smell of longterm decay also"


You've written about propaganda here, Confuse Ponderer. This is wonderfull piece of old Soviet-style propaganda addressed to Russians, isn't it?
Looks like it was preparation to selling to Russian people story: MH17 was special intelligence USA/UKR operation, isn't it?

Could Strelkov say this knowing speratists were innocent?
Sorry - hard to believe to me...

And now connect the dots: Twitter, Rusvesna interview and German Intelligence...do you see it?

curtis

Don't forget that

"...we deceive ourselves the better to deceive others..." - Robert Trivers

Anonymous

To the extent that Foreign policy eventually reflects the internal employment of "fictitious narratives of events" that "end up addressing virtual, constructed realities," there's a need to understand how heavily the american society is afflicted by this practice.

I that light I wish to address an internal instance from the past where it was applied the other, more subtle, insidious way in which a narrative can be adjusted, namely, by subtracting facts from the underlying reality.

In this illustrative case a forceful denunciation of citizen's apathy was built in order to take the focus away from certain "structural problems" of the society which the makers of the narrative were interested in hiding for political gain.

These days some expressions of the fear of apathy in the american mind can be noticed in the hysteria found in those who want to use american foreign policy as an R2P instrument, or in Michelle's antics against Boko Haram or in the pressure upon Clinton from Amanpour for intervention in Bosnia, and so forth.

In that particular old case, the accusations of apathy were a way to inflict guilty on the common person before they could notice what was happening around them and so block clear perception, clear reflection and clear reaction. Guilty which eventually becomes a habbit of the mind. One that usurps the place of a healthy conscience. That being the aim of the particular form of neuroparasitism that now takes hold of the american mind. A mind once known for its objectivity, clarity, power and most of all, common sense.

A link to the article is given below, along with one to the wikipedia page on the subject. The keen observer will notice the name of the NYT editor behind the narrative and ponder how the shaming of apathy in the face of a dying girl could become a prelude for the shaming of nonintervention in the face of ominous alluminium tubes, once the method was established.

http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-kitty-genovese-murder-after-50-years/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

ISL

CP,

nice exposition, I think you are describing the creeping Italian disease in the US - where it is not what you know and how well you do it that matters, but who you know and as such, there are minimal to no ramifications for poor performance.

The differences between the S&L crisis versus the recent meltdown are stark - no perp walks for anyone today!

Once upon a time, the US used plausible deniability, now we redefine torture as enhanced interrogation, and nothing. Scandal after scandal breaks in the media and nothing. Congressional investigations, and nothing. I contend that in such an environment, there is no need for a reality-basis in mass-media communication.

Compounding is the disdain of those in the DC bubble for those outside - they communicate to the American public with a presumption of stupidity.

American capitalism worked because success was rewarded and failure did not result in get out of jail free cards because I have connections in high places - the Italian disease. Perhaps it is the natural evolution of empires.

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