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06 November 2014

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Babak Makkinejad

Col. Lang:

During the US Civil War, were there any instances of officers and men changing sides - singly or en mass?

turcopolier

Babak

At the very beginning before fighting started a good many US regular officers resigned their commissions and when these resignations were accepted by the Secretary of War they mostly took service with their native states. I don't know of any instance of a commissioned officer changing side during the war itself. A good many enlisted soldiers on both sides who had been captured changed sides if they were not going to be exchanged. There was a Black regiment raised for the Confederates in Louisiana that became a Union regiment after the North occupied southern Louisiana. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Louisiana_Native_Guard_(CSA) pl

Fred

Col.,

A Black Confederate regiment in Louisiana? I imagine they will be some howls of protest over that history.

BabelFish

I have a great deal of admiration for Lo Armistead and have always thought that Richard Jordan did a superb job of playing him in the Turner movie Gettysburg, that translated Sharra's 'The Killer Angels'. Jordan was ill at the time, fatally as it turned out. You can see that in the film, once you've understood that fact. I've read that folks thought that helped him communicate the pain Armistead would have felt on having to go up against Hancock on that fateful day.

William R. Cumming

The funeral oration of Pericles would seem appropo IMO!

Matthew

Fred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Louisiana_Native_Guard_(CSA)

scott s.

Fred,

It's well known, though perhaps better referred to as "Creole" rather than "Black" in consideration of the culture of Louisiana. A bigger issue was the insistence by the theater commander Banks that White officers were assigned after they were reformed as USCT.

turcopolier

Babelfish

"When you get back to your home, I want you to tell them what you saw here..." Richard Jordan as Armistead in "Gettysburg" speaking to Lt Col Fremantle just before the attack on the 3rd day. pl

oofda

I remember reading the story of Cushing as a kid- always wondered why he had not been given the MOH until now. BTW, Sergeat Füger was awarded the MOH.

BabelFish

Pat, that would have been a mighty task for Freemantle. Sharra comments that, even after the battle, he was still convinced that the Confederacy would outright win the war.

I still chuckle at remembering Longstreet's comment, in The Killer Angels, when he sees Freemantle waving at him from afar and says "He's not very bright, is he."

turcopolier

Babelfish

Shaara's view of Fremantle is not supported by the facts of his life or the evidence of his excellent little book concerning his 90 days in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Fremantle

http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/fremantle/menu.html/

BTW I do not think Confederate independence was unachievable after Gettysburg. The Rebels wanted to leave the US permanently. To have that what they needed was a decision in the North to discontinue efforts to conquer them. IMO both Lee's campaigns in the North were mistakes. As one Confederate officer said after Gettysburg "what we might have gained there was far outweighed by what we left there." The same is true of the Sharpsburg Campaign in which Lee took risks with his precious army that no sane man should have taken. For example, he decided to decisively engage McClellan at Sharpsburg when he had only 25,000 troops in hand and there was no bridge across the Potomac to his rear. It was win or die. Stupidly belligerent. No, IMO the right path would have been to wage a Fabian war in both the east and west with the aim of killing and wounding so many Yankees or pseudo-Yankees that the public would have demanded an end. Specifically, in the Overland Campaign of 1864 Lee almost achieved sufficient wreckage of the Army of the Potomac to have forced Grant to retire. That might have ruined Lincoln's chance of re-election. pl

William R. Cumming

P.L. and ALL! What was the highest honor bestowed by the Confederate government on its heroes and are the names of the awardees available?

BabelFish

Pat, I will yield on Freemantle and will read his book. I wonder if Sharra was just extending Old Pete's frustration with the invasion or if Longstreet specifically thought Freemantle was, in fact, not terrible smart.

IMO the smartest thing that Lincoln did was the blockade. Of course, that's reflecting an old sailor's viewpoint. Would you agree that the Overland campaign was intended to be a war of attrition? As Chamberlain comments in his memoirs, along with others, if Baldy Smith had only walked into Petersburg and cut the rail lines, the war would have been shortened by a year. Chamberlain does talk about the Union losses being horrific.

turcopolier

WRC

The "Southern Cross of Honor." Someone other than I would have to provide a list of recipients. I have never seen a photo of anyone wearing one during the war. pl

Eliot

Col. Lang,

It was never produced during the war, was it? There was the official roll of honor but no medal to accompany it.

- Eliot

Tidewater

Tidewater to Turcopolier,

Sir,

I know you know this but someone needs to point out that Alonzo was one of four brothers who served with the United States Navy during the War. I think two died. It was Alonzo's brother William who accomplished the amazing feat of sinking the CSS Albemarle. The attack has the cheery element of The African Queen about it. Though Cushing actually got caught in the muzzle blast of one of the Albemarle's guns, was thrown through the air into the juniper water, somehow surviving being pickled. As is possible from the physical damage from an Improvised Explosive Device (IED) it seems to have done for him a few years down the line. They called it "sciatica" then? (Didn't Daniel Morgan have sciatica? He said when it hit it was like being shot.) Cushing did something remarkable at Fort Fisher as well, it seems.

The ram Albemarle is a great southern story. The Confederates built her in a corn field up river, probably arguing a lot, certainly improvising, as they went along. Absolute beginners, as the British say. When she was going down the river and into battle, they were still hammering away on her. When hit by a cannon shot the bolts inside had a disconcerting way of popping off and bouncing around inside.

I once read a little book about her. The North Carolinian who wrote it grew up on those sounds behind the Outer Banks, so he spelled the ram's name the way they had always correctly mispronounced it: "Abermarle." The printer had to attach a neatly printed note in the binding against the frontispiece that was the first thing you saw when you opened it, acknowledging the mistake. The word "Abermarle" must have appeared a thousand times. The writer's cringing little hell!

Eliot

One of my mother's ancestors was a recipient and so I looked into the issue, albeit briefly. Michael Neff (Näf) enlisted in the 63rd Virginia at the start of the war and was cited for valor at Chickamauga. As to why, I wish I knew.

- Eliot

Tidewater

Tidewater, somewhat crestfallen, to Turcopolier,

I just went back and checked. Talk about writers' mistakes! I know that the history I just provided is not quite right. Cushing may or may not have been injured in the explosion of the torpedo. But he actually swam out of there the next day. The Ram Albemarle never fired a shot. Physically, something did happen to Cushing.

I think my bit about the Confederates having serious problems getting the ram built and working on her going down the river is correct.

CSS Albemarle was involved in some of the most inelegant naval fighting of the whole war. They rammed at every chance when it was counterproductive, must have been pumping like crazy in every engagement; fired heavy cannon like Brooke rifles point blank; the crews were surely deafened, knocked off their feet again and again, startled to be lurched and rolled into and out of their ships' lumbering death grips where they knew they were surely all going down together; they had rifle and pistol duels out of the embrasures fighting off boarding parties. You know, these tactful, gentlemanly naval officers seem to turn into something else altogether when they fight their ships. Is this not so?

And another of Cushing's brothers is immortalized in On The Border With Crook!


Tidewater

Tidewater to Turcopolier,

Sir,

I need to get it right. There were four Cushing brothers. Two served in the United States Navy. William was the one who sank the CSS Albemarle.

William R. Cumming

Thanks P.L.

Eliot

Col. Lang,

"BTW I do not think Confederate independence was unachievable after Gettysburg."

Professor Gallagher stresses this, pointing to Lincoln's deteriorating political support in that summer of 64. For Gallagher, it's the failures in the West and the fall of Atlanta which doomed the Confederacy. If Johnston had held Sherman off, if Hood hadn't squandered Army of Tennessee outside of Atlanta - then, then the copperheads might have won.

To Gettysburg and a Fabian strategy, would the leadership of the Confederacy accepted a defensive war? It strikes me as antithetical to their code.

- Eliot

turcopolier

Eliot

I don't think you can call "Little Mac" a "copperhead," but IMO he would have negotiated a way out of the war. As for "the code" Lee had a very hard time persuading his army and the government that his 1862 and 1863 campaigns were a good idea. pl

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