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30 August 2014

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Marcy  C.

Tyler,

Please clarify, what is PAIC? google tells me it's
an insurance company and I know that is not what you meant.

bth

Aka, in exchange for that memorandum, with US, UK and Russian defense assurances, the Ukraine surrendered several thousand nuclear weapons. Memorandums are inconvenient. So are nukes.

Tyler

Marcy,

Patrol Agent in Charge - the equivalent of a SAIC or Special Agent in Charge.

Tyler

bth,

Yes you've convinced me. We must now deploy troops to Ukraine for the good of the world based off a gentleman's agreement that's been dragged through the mud.

nick b

MC,

Patrol Agent In Charge.

FB Ali

bth,

I don't recall it was Russia that overthrew the elected President of Ukraine (in the Maidan uprising) and installed a 'friendly' regime instead (Remember? "Yats" was Nuland's favourite in that notorious "F**k the EU" call).

Fred

Tyler

Read "Memory is the Collective Toolshed" that the Col. Linked to on the post on Scotland. I think that explains the manipulation of the political elites and the social response. They are predictably erasing Black history that does not adhere to the victimhood mythology and are trying to create the same with the "war on women" campaign. Not to mention the ongoing bias against Southern culture.

burton50

Agreed. It should also be repeated that the record of sustained Western interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine since at least 2004 doesn't IMHO constitute the requisite "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine". But all that has long ago been air-brushed out of the picture. Memorandum for thee, but not for me.

turcopolier

Fred

I could have added Texas or Arizona to the title. pl

Tyler

Fred,

Its all from the Frankfurt School/cultural Marxist playbook. Its why leftists say with a straight face that black men are killed simply for breathing wrong and can't walk through white neighborhoods without being shot. Its why Oprah actually believes millions of lynchings occurred in the South. Its why there's a segment of the population that believes Django Unchained is a documentary.

As I've said before, progressive thought is the worst aspects of a cult and schizophrenia merged.

turcopolier

All

If this "key" goes dead, you know... pl

Tyler

Sir,

Yes indeed. Active the Templar Initiative and select members begin a life of piracy on the high seas.

Aka

bth,
Memorandums are inconvenient. Nukes dangerous. If you are not familiar with that, try searching for military nuclear accidents. And What exactly is your point? was nuclear disarmament a mistake? Would Ukraine would be better if it kept it arsenal?

IMO, nuclear armed Ukraine was not acceptable to the US (NATO) nor Russia. If there wasn't a 1994 memorandum, there would have been a some other kind of "memorandum".

Think about the situation of the current Ukrainian armed forces and their equipment. If Ukis still had nuclear weapons do you think they would be in a better condition? Ukraine's problem is not the lack of nuclear weapons but the lack of effective armed force and police.

And if you read that memorandum carefully it contains words like "political independence of Ukraine". How exactly would that coincide with US spending 5 billion on Ukraine?

"The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States ...... seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, ....... if Ukraine should become a victim of[2] an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;"

is Ukraine being threatened with nuclear weapons?

bth

Just keep in mind that that western interference in the Ukraine you so disdain also helped removed several thousand nuclear weapons in exchange for Russian nonaggression into Ukraine.

bth

Not troops. Weapons and satellite feeds.

bth

Yes but we didn't invade the Ukraine.

bth

You are not a naive person. Nuland is not omnipresent. The Ukrainians couldn't stand the corruption or the return to the Russian sphere. Maidan uprising was more than the asserted $4 billion repeated and repeated on blogs until becoming fact. The "F**k the EU" line was a private phone conversation the Russians intercepted and published to split the EU and the US with good effect. But this you know.

bth

If I read the news correctly, Obama will visit Estonia this week.

Tyler

Bth,

You're ridiculous. We have no business being involved the Ukraine, nor in provoking Russia. But continue to wave around a ridiculous non binding "Agreement" as the reason to kick off WWIII.

The Twisted Genius

bth,

The competence of Russian (Soviet) mathematicians and engineers did more to remove the nuclear weapons from Ukraine than the 1994 memorandum. The Ukrainians tried like hell to break the codes but couldn't do it. Only after that failure did they succumb to world pressure and give up the nukes. It's a good thing they did given the neglect and looting they lavished on the rest of their military forces since then.

kxd

bth,

I'm curious to know when you refer to "The Ukrainians", which ones are you speaking for? The ones in the East, who had no say in the junta that was put into power as a result of the Maidan uprising? Are you speaking for the half of the ukrainian population that have being polled as not wanting closer EU/NATO ties?

confusedponderer

bth,
"asserted $4 billion repeated and repeated on blogs "

Nonsense, this isn't a blogosphere meme.

Hear it coming straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY

You can buy a lot of attention for 5 billion dollars.

The point is that the US did meddle, massively.

Western and in particular US encouragement for the protesters to not compromise with the Yanulovich administration, and proclamations that the protesters had US support did a lot to keep the protests going and to prevent a peaceful settlement that may have been possible.

What do you think McCain and Nuland went to the Maidan for, just to hand out cookies? You assume these people went altruistic all of a sudden?

They went there in pursuit of a policy goal.

Imagine

Killer robots, they're cheaper. "It's the Wave of the Future".

Imagine

Ukraine 2013 average per capita YEARLY income was $3,900. That buys a lot of goon squads.

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