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06 August 2014

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crf

Wouldn't Egypt need to be the core backer of this type of plan? The United States "political system" would probably have to emphasize Egypt's role, since direct dealings with Hamas would be too difficult for US politicians.

If so, then a large commitment to Egyptian stability needs to be made by the United States.

turcopolier

CRF

We are already heavily supporting Egypt financially. I suppose a few dollars more wouldn't hurt. Yes, Egypt has to be the base of such a structure for many reasons. p l

Petrous

Well said.

Poul

Would an international observation group include naval forces to patrol Gaza's coast line be possible.

Fishing is an important source of food for Gaza. Unfortunately, fishermen have long been killed by the Israeli Navy if they move to far from the coast. UN control of shipping would also be a big bonus for the economy of Gaza.

Andrew

..." BTW, it is "Hamas," not "Khamas." PL

I know sir, but from the MSM my mind is awash with Mel Brooks characters.

Whether through "emotional BS" or "concrete interests", I tend to believe that most Arab men/people would not want to be MB fanatics if they had an Italian leather sofa, some decent shirts and gadgets, maybe a job. Had things been allowed to run their course, I think the Egyptian people would have destroyed the MB with shoes and sticks.

If I were CIA I would have done a "whisper campaign' that the MB were going to ban Radio in Egypt and declare Oum Kalthoum no play. Can you see what would have happened to Morsi.

The idea should have been how to offer an alternative scheme. To force feed the progression of democracy into the masses, not to bring forth a prancing executioner that will plunge Egypt in cycles of revenge and rebellion. Even a believer in the Natural Rights of gnomes like me can see the patterns emerging.

Hope I haven't been insolent in my reply.

Fred

Matthew,

I did not have a cookie recipe handy. (I think that's the proper troll response. Sunlight only works in Tolkien books.)

turcopolier

Andrew

No! No! I was just checking your "headspace." Someone will explain the Ma Deuce reference. We don't want people here who will not stand up for their opinions. pl

Fred

Andrew,

You are rather harsh on the Egyptians. They would face little opposition from rank and file Hamas members and probably zero from the Gaza Palestinians. They would have more to fear from Israeli zealots, especially settlers; and the right wing in the current government which may foster multiple false flag operations along the lines of what we saw in Syria.

There would be a number of benefits. First of all easing of the food, fuel and water blockade that creates immense problems especially amongst the elderly and children. Second actual journalists not the Pravda of the Holy Land that we see now (and you point out in your comment) would be able to travel and report to the world. I'm sure Israel and the Hasbara look forward to that prospect. Third is the Egyptian soldiers - who are part of the one functioning social institution of Egyptian society - would be in such a role that Honor would demand right conduct. I think that is very important in Arab society in general and within the Islamic faith as well. What private, NCO or junior officer is going to risk his and his nation's honor, especially in the beginning? That is going to have a major impact on the stability of the Egyptian state and society. None of the general officers are going to risk that on a few more dollars in a Swiss bank. Such action also weakens the influence of the House of Saud (or at least some) and the other backers of the jihadi movements.

Finally is there is the impact on the Palestinians. They would see real support from the Arab world and that alone should reinforce a sense of solidarity as a people and strengthen the accord that exists between Fatah and Hamas as political elements rather than political and military rivals. They might also have the change to 'retire' the flying pipe bombs; perhaps even doing so in a public manner - i.e. a "parade of peace" (two can play the pr game) and challenge the IDF to do the same. (Especially since the feared "Human Shields" are an actual professional military force). All the more incentive for the PA to ensure the good conduct of its citizens and start rebuilding in the Holy Land.

Cee

John,

Interesting comment from your boss. You might be interested in We Look Like The Enemy by Shabi Rachel. It's about Arab Jews in Israel and their treatment.

Babak Makkinejad

I think it more apt to compare the Muslim Brotherhood program not with what obtains in Europe and North America but what prevails in the Arab world.

The central attractive message of the Muslim Brotherhood is that Legitimacy comes out of the Ballot Box and nothing else.

Now, most Arabs will never be able to afford "... Italian leather sofa, some decent shirts and gadgets...", not now nor in any conceivable time frame that would make any difference to them since the economic productivity & product/business innovation to do so does not exist among them.

In regards to banning Umm Kholthum etc.; this is the Islamist program everywhere - Shia or Sunni.

In a way, this is akin to the behavior of those poor islanders in South Pacific (please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult); they are hoping to restore the power & glory of their societies (such as they understand through half-remembered, half-understood, and myth-informed historical recollections) by emulating what they think their ancestors were doing.

All of it, of course, begs the question that if your ancestors were so great, then how did Arabs, or Pakistanis, or Bengalis became beggars at the feast of the world?

Babak Makkinejad

Pakistan is a nuclear-armed state with the naval assets to break the maritime siege of Gaza.

Turkey is a NATO member that also has the wherewithal to break the maritime siege of Gaza.

But these countries and governments lack the Will-to-Power - they play at being clever and cunning not understanding that sometimes one needs to demonstrate raw courage.

As is, they will never do anything that would or could antagonize their patrons....

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