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20 August 2014

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Bobo

EA
Yes the demographics are interesting when you get into them regarding Ferguson. Keep in mind in 1990 it was 74% white versus today 29%, also 74 men for every 100 women and one police officer for every 400 residents. A lot has changed in a very short time in that town. Imagine there are quite a number of cities in America like that.
Let's not blame Ferguson for all the poor policing as with only 53 officers the response was more regional or do some think a town of 20,000 has all those MRAP's.

Cee

Col. Pat,

My wonderful, WWII veteran father always me told me that "people died for my right to vote who never got to vote"

If I didn't vote I would be shaming his memory. Unfortunately, many of these people in Missouri who aren't voting weren't raised by people of conscience. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but it needs to be said.

Matthew

Walrus: I sense you are just chasing your own tail. I live in a city that is awash in guns, yet our police are friendly, respectful, and community-minded. And the national violent crime rate has been dropping for years. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Consequently, the militarization of American police is not a response to increasing threats; it was a result of available (surplus) military equipment.

Cee

Col. Lang,


Agreed on the St Anne officer and agreed on NAFTA. I'll add the IMF and WTO issues.
Those are the reasons that I have been in the streets and had been exposed to some of what people in Ferguson are dealing with now.

Tyler

Will,

I think it has more to do with the liberal doublethink in regards to the benevolence of the state.

Tyler

Cee,

LOL is this a parody of a HuffPost commenter because if so bravo.

Actually the officer had received the call to the robbery and lo and behold the description matched Saint Michael Brown of the Cigars. Besides walking in the middle of the street is an obvious public nuisance anyway, and something that ghetto idiots do to try and flex what little power they have.

Tyler

EA,

I know what you meant and you can read my comment as such.

Tyler

oof,

I don't think the police owe a bunch of racial rabble rousers who aren't going to be satisfied with anything less than a public stoning information in regards to an ongoing investigation.

Maybe you're watching some other news feed where the family's lawyer wasn't making ridiculous claims about what the autopsy meant. The one I saw had some idiot pontificating about "back to front" wounds that only LOOK like he was shot in the back cause physics and biology be rayciss.

Tyler

Walrus,

Yes you get it. You send Officer Friendly into some of these places and you're going to get him back in pieces.

Not saying every small town PD needs a police force looking like they're going to patrol Fallujah but the idea that police only need a six shooter and a good attitude is laughable and generally coming from rich white liberals who aren't going to be affected by the fallout when the wolves are better armed than the sheepdogs.

John Minnerath

PL,
Thanks for that last explanation. I think I wasn't alone in thinking if we made a reply to an existing comment we all saw the same page not realizing you were doing your editorial work in a different format.

turcopolier

CEE

Do you really think that Blacks can't vote in Missouri? pl

Stephanie

Colonel - Respectfully, the remit of the police department is to serve the community as a whole, regardless of who happened to turn out at the ballot box last time around. That's a duty, not an option. I'm not disputing the fact that voting matters and there are consequences if you don't vote. And the people of Ferguson also have a duty - to get out and vote. But voting is a habit acquired over time for most people and some groups alienated from the mainstream never do develop it.

Of course, there are those who try to make that difficult even for highly motivated black voters, but that's another topic.

The Twisted Genius

All,

Well here's a new monkey wrench in this emotional conversation. It looks like that 18 year old never robbed that store. He bought those cigars legally, probably had words with the clerk/proprietor because he couldn't buy more and shoved that guy at the store doorway. Okay, he acted like an asshole for shoving that guy. The proprietor said he was not robbed and did not understand why the police wanted his surveillance tapes. So why did the local police release that tape and infer that the 18 year old just committed a strong arm robbery? All that did was inflame the situation and give the thugs the excuse they needed to start looting and burning. Is this what the local police wanted when they released that tape and basically lied about that incident? This was after the State Police very adeptly diffused the situation the day after the local police screwed the pooch by playing Johnny Rambo the night before with a few extremely undisciplined officers pointing their rifles at demonstrators yelling things like "I will f#cking kill you" and "Bring it on you animals." The demonstrators no doubt said the same things and probably worse. They're citizens. They can do that. The police are supposed to be professionals. The only citizens they should be yelling at, gassing, shooting with rubber bullets and arresting are the looters, the shooters and the Molotov cocktail throwers. BTW, they'd be better able to spot the Molotov cocktail throwers and shooters if they didn't cover the streets with smoke and teargas.

This is especially maddening compared to the competency and professionalism of the Sheriff's Office in my county. We've had armed deputies in the schools for years. They've kept a lid on drug and gang problems without becoming heavy handed. They are 100 times more professional that what I've seen of the Ferguson Police. Those people need to be investigated.

Well, that turned into a rant. I await your rebuttals.

Tyler

LW,

Jews and blacks agitating against whites.

Every year is Freedumb Summer.

Laura Wilson

Col.--I can have it both ways: In theory, it doesn't matter whether the city govt is 100% white or 100% black. The police are to protect and to serve all of the people who live in their jurisdiction and to apply the law fairly.

That is why we have a legal system with the police being the "tip of the baton" as it were. that is kind of the whole point of the rule of law.

Admittedly, it doesn't work that way all the time but we can never say "oh well, the police are all white or all black so what do you expect" … As Americans we expect competent and fair law enforcement….it is our right.
One we obviously aren't working hard enough on.

Kyle Pearson

In reply to kao_hsien_chih:

Jefferson's warning is being acted out as we speak in Ferguson, right now.

I've seen and heard a lot of people who seem to think the pruners should be put down like dogs, and presume to blame them for their outrage at the injustices they suffer.

Kyle Pearson

In reply to turcopolier:

With all due respect, Colonel: the gerrymandering that was done by the Republican party, back in 2006 or so, has ensured that even if cultural subgroups turn out in force, and enjoy a solid minority in the area, they still will not be fairly represented in the government.

Texas' gerrymandering is going to keep a largely white, increasingly nutty conservative majority in charge of the legislature for many election cycles more, even after Americans of anglo-European heritage cease to enjoy majority status.

Kyle Pearson

In reply to walrus:
I am in full agreement with kao_hsien_chih down below, when he writes:

>>>I don't think the problem of "militarization" is that of the equipment. It may contribute to the problem, but it's not the core....The problem with militarization is that of attitude....

I don't mind police officers protecting themselves with suitable firepower and armor.

What I resent is when they use that firepower on unarmed people, or to perform raids on civilians who are in no way a serious criminal threat.

If the police were punished according to the same laws the rest of us are in those instances - manslaughter, murder, assault - then I suspect that the increasing number of instances where violence is used against people who are not in any way threatening or dangerous would decrease dramatically.

Unfortunately, it is very hard to get the police to collect evidence on themselves, and the rhetoric in our media and political institutions will not allow for rational criticisms of police behavior. "The police are always right" is the message one gets from the media, politicians, and others who wield actual power.

I have a few friends who are or were cops, and they all admit that there are a LOT of bad cops out there, but because of political rhetoric and "code of silence" that cops enforce among themselves it's very difficult to get rid of these men and women.

Unlike kao, I believe that the root of the problems we have with out-of-control cops are legal codes that are badly in need of pruning, and the "war on drugs", which criminalizes behavior that should instead be addressed medically.

Good people don't like to enforce bad laws, and there are a lot of bad laws out there: three strikes and drug enforcement codes are a couple that most people can agree on, and there are a whole host of others that come after.

If a society really does aspire to high standards of personal freedom, due process of law, and economic liberty, then any law that can be used by a cop to arbitrarily detain and/or arrest someone - and there are an awful lot of those, out there - should be eliminated.

turcopolier

Kyle Pearson

Do the Democrats not gerrymander when they can? pl

turcopolier

Kyle Pearson

"Jefferson?" What are you talking about? pl

turcopolier

Laura Wilson

Surely, you can distinguish between theoretical ideals and actual situations involving human beings rather than automatons. If I understand you, it is your opinion that the racial composition of the Ferguson police force is irrelevant. pl

turcopolier

Stephanie

You and Laura Wilson must not have any experience of actual participation in government. Policemen, like soldiers, or civil servants are humans not robots that you bought and programmed to follow algorithmic rules. pl

Cee

Co. Lang,

If I gave you the impression that I thought they can't, forgive me. They can (except felons) they just aren't voting.

I do believe that once someone serves time they should have their voting rights restored.

Cee

Twisted Genius,

Here is the video that shows that he paid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew

Matthew

Tyler: I'm surprised there is not more liberal-conservative bonding over the mutual threat of police militarization.

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