« Evil − and its manifestations (FB Ali) | Main | Bibi/Obama phone transcript »

28 July 2014

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Matthew

Walrus: We used to mock the Bush Administration for only engaging in negotiations with friends, not enemies.

Clearly, our former president represents the spirit of the age: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/26/some-israel-gaza-notes/


Matthew

Dubhaltach: I have a simpler question: Why does any Syrian Army Soldier ever surrender? And yet they do....and then they get their heads chopped off.

oofda

Regarding Highlander's history:

As a career Marine, I can say that at one time it might have been possible to have served as a grunt in Vietnnam and and later have had a career in aviation. However, in doing so, flying three different types of aircraft- C-130's, F-4 Phantoms, and A-4 Skyhawks would have been a stretch. They are in three different avaiation communities. A-4's are attack aircraft, and A-6's or AV-8's were successors to A-4 squadrons. F-4's are fighter-attack. It would have been unusual to go from attack to fighter-attack to cargo. Not impossible, but in the post -Vietnam era, not as possible as before, when a number of differnt types of A/C were being introduced.

MRW

There are so many of them (Bullshevikers) flooding the blogs these days. Israel has an entire paid army of them--latest count a few months ago 20,000--adopting handles and names pretending to be American citizens supporting Israel and trashing any American who disagrees with them. Don't have the links, and no time to find them now, but a search would find the stories.

Wait, here are some older ones I bookmarked:
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/israel-paying-agents-to-post-pro-israel-propaganda-on-internet-forums-blogs/

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-recruits-army-of-bloggers-to-combat-anti-zionist-web-sites-1.268393

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/14/israel-pay-students-propaganda_n_3755782.html

And the old favorite, what they're doing on wikipedia with classes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LofScCiJT4c

Dubhaltach

In reply to Matthew 28 July 2014 at 05:53 PM

Why did Russian partisans surrender to German Waffen SS troops during World War II? Why did German Waffen SS troops surrender to Russian forces including partisans during World War II? Come to that why did defenders of the Warsaw ghetto surrender to the Germans who were blatantly engaged in exterminating them? Or Chinese people surrender to Japanese troops during the Rape of Nanking?

What point are you trying to make? Please be specific it'd be nice if you'd also specify how it's germane.

Dubhaltach

Dubhaltach

And that's mild.

Dubhaltach

fanto

at Colonel: slightly off topic, Sir - I started calling US Senators offices and telling their staff how I feel about sloughtering civilian population. I have mixed feelings if this is appropriate action. On one hand I think that if I do not do it, I may be later be accused by my offspring - "dad, what have you done to stop it?" (as some Germans were asking their fathers after the war). On the other hand, I think maybe silence is better and just stop going to elections, or if going to the urn - than elect a third party candidate. After such election the both major parties may suddenly realize that they have lost the support of majority of population - if other members of the society would do likewise (Pipedream?)

jdledell

Nick - As I said in an earlier comment as far as the Golani is concerned - this directive is the absolute truth confirmed by my nephew, a captain in the Golani. His words to his men were - if it looks like you are going to be captured,shoot as many of the enemy as you can, but be SURE to save one bullet for yourself.

J

jdledell

This 'primary instruction' given to both your nephew and other IDF'ers by the Israeli Government/IDF hierarchy shows that both the israeli government (little letters) and its play soldiers are nothing more than willing participants in 'cold blood murder'. Is this the presumptuousness before Heaven that the Rabbis are talking about where the current state of Israel as it stands needs to be dissolved and left to the Divine Hand to create? Hmmmmm......their 'primary instruction' for cold blooded murder only underscores the Rabbinical call for the 'current state of Israel's dissolution'.

Their 'primary instruction' along with example after example of cold blooded murder of unarmed innocent Palestinian grandmothers, children, and old men, sadly is a testament to a 'failed State' that is called Israel today.

I have to agree with the Rabbis, Israel needs to be dissolved and left to the Divine Hand to create.

zanzibar

fanto

I have voted by writing-in independent candidates for decades. I also always vote against a bond measure. Not that it has mattered. I have become resigned to being in the minority of opinion and comfortable with being on the losing team!

c'est la vie.

Cee

Walrus,

Agreed! Where is Sgt. Oron Shau? The IDF has declared him dead with no proof!!

The Twisted Genius

jdledell,

"His words to his men were - if it looks like you are going to be captured,shoot as many of the enemy as you can, but be SURE to save one bullet for yourself."

That sentiment seems quite different than what I understand the "Hannibal Directive" to entail. Saving a bullet for yourself is far different than shooting your fellow soldier if he is going to be captured for what, it seems to me, to prevent a political dilemma for the government. The latter is just flat abhorrent.

A common practice is the Lithuanian Freedom Army was to place a grenade to your face with both hands if you were about to be captured by Beria's KKVD troops. This was done to prevent identification of your body to prevent the arrest and/or execution of your family and friends. I can understand this. It is a selfless act, even if the Catholic Church disapproves of it.

kao_hsien_chih

This attitude reminds me of the WW2 era Imperial Japanese. Definitely NOT a very moral or disciplined army.

kao_hsien_chih

I don't know if writing/calling congresspeople as individuals would make too much of a difference. But if the protest calls/letters/emails go up in numbers and intensity (enough that it might actually translate to meaningful action come the election day), they tend to make at least a dent. It'd be best not just to call the senators, but encourage your family and friends to do the same, and in the strongest language possible. It will, however, need to be quite serious in both number and intensity, though. Senators know that the pro-war types have the intensity and the means to supply money with which to smother the not-so-intense opposition before the election day.

Anonymous

Interesting specimens: being captured by the enemy is seen as a little worse than dating with it and a little better than marrying with it.

Patrick D

So Israel sees its choice being killing a captured Israeli serviceman or, later, negotiating his release in exchange for thousands of Palestinian prisoners.

Maybe Israel just needs better negotiators.

Castellio

You got to the nub of it.

Dubhaltach

In reply to kao_hsien_chih 28 July 2014 at 09:43 PM

Thank you that's a very apt comparison - Having seen their performance in Lebanon I couldn't bring myself to compare them to Wehrmacht forces. The German soldiers or the Waffen SS come to that may have been in the service of evil (stipulated that a lot maybe even most did not believe so) but they were effective fighters not least because they were disciplined.

Dubhaltach

Joe100

I also wonder about training for one-way nuc delivery in an A-4. That could have been a Navy mission and perhaps Marine A-4 units on carriers at that time were crossed trained. Otherwise, this sounds unlikely for Marine aviation mission.

Fred

Patrick D,

Israel could always make peace and return to their original borders.

Andrew

If they all would just kill themselves off, Great! Pure Evil!

Below, Please watch the monsters amongst US clamoring for more dead babies -10,000 NY Nazi Jews for genocide (where are the Christian zionists for all the obfuscators out there telling us some brain dead trailer trash control the Mid East discourse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v4smlsZ3QQ

As for the wall to wall Jews on CNN they are spending every 'on air moment to present the Monster's perspective before ,and after their pro Israel commentary. It is surreal to watch that Carole Costello this morning constantly making the case that dead children are Hamas' fault and twisting that ugly f---ing rat face. Boycott CNN. CNN is Der Sturmer.


Marcello

To be fair some of the advocates demanded, in order for that to work, apocalyptic levels of violence that were seldom attained and would not be "practical" in modern circumstances. Douhet wanted to blanket cities with persistent chemical agents for instance.

jdledell

TG -It's just a variation on the same theme.Never allow your comrades to be captured (ie shoot to kill to prevent it) or if that is not possible and you are alone - do it to yourself.

Andrew

Eran Efrati tells us... " In one of the videos uploaded to YouTube, a young Palestinian man Salem Shammaly calls the names of his family and looking for them between the ruins when he is suddenly shot at in his chest and falls down. A few seconds after that, there are two additional shootings from snipers into his body, killing him instantly. Since the video was released, there was no official response from the IDF spokesperson. Today I can report that the official command that was handed down to the soldiers in Shujaiyya was to capture Palestinian homes as outposts. From these posts, the soldiers drew an imaginary red line, and amongst themselves decided to shoot to death anyone who crosses it. Anyone crossing the line was defined as a threat to their outposts, and was thus deemed a legitimate target. This was the official reasoning inside the units. I was told that the unofficial reason was to enable the soldiers to take out their frustrations and pain at losing their fellow soldiers (something that for years the IDF has not faced during its operations in Gaza and the West Bank), out on the Palestinian refugees in the neighborhood. Under the pretext of the so-called "security threat" soldiers were directed to carry out a pre-planned attack of revenge on Palestinian civilians. These stories join many other similar ones that Amira Hass and I investigated in Operation Cast Lead. The death toll that continues to rise is steadily reaching the numbers of the massacre of 2009.
More than 1,100 have been killed in Gaza, at least 80 percent of them civilians. Today it is cleared for publication that at least 4 soldiers were killed by a rocket in a gathering area outside of Gaza, and another soldier was killed in Gaza. They join 43 soldiers that have already been killed. We know that more acts of revenge will come soon and it is important that we not stay silent. This is the time to take to the streets and to social media. Demand from your representative wherever you are to stop supporting this massacre and to immediately boycott the state of Israel until the occupation ends, the blockade is lifted and Palestinians will be free. We all want to be in the right place at the right time when history knocks on our door, and history is knocking in Gaza right now. You need to decide on which side you want to go down in history."

Poul

Col. Lang

I would not include the ordinary Israeli citizen in this.

It is only the political/military leaders of a nationalistic persuasion who benefit. A dead soldier cannot be used to mobilise political support among Israeli voters for a political deal with the capturers.

If there were broad based support for a "no negotiations" policy you would not have to kill the soldier. Whether he was alive or not would make no difference. No political pressure would arise from his capture.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

October 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Blog powered by Typepad