Wormtongue Speaks By Walrus.

"Though President Obama has spoken about ramping up our support for the opposition in Syria, we are late to that effort. It is time for the United States to assume the responsibility of quarterbacking the entire assistance effort to ensure that more meaningful aid — lethal, training, intelligence, money and humanitarian — not only gets to those who are fighting both ISIS and the Assad regime but is fully coordinated and complementary."  latimes

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As predicted, the Neocon solution to the problems the application of their policies have created for us in the Middle East is more of the same.

I heard a Neocon speaking on Friday about the current situation; his defence was; "How could we have known?", "What would you do?". My unvoiced answer;  fire the policy makers, opinion leaders, commentators and analysts who  advocated these adventures in the first place for it is axiomatic in business that the people who got you into a mess aren't he people who can get you out of it.

If the West doesn't have the ability to observe and correct its policy failures, then we deserve to be consigned to the dustbin of history. The starting point for that has to be the realisation that deliberate destabilisation of countries and regions is not a good idea at the best of times and eschewing the advice of anyone who thinks it is. Leave Syria, Ukraine and Iran alone lest we summon unstoppable demons from the abyss.

Read the rest of Dennis Ross's drivel  if you have the stomach for it.  Walrus

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-ross-isis-iraq-syria-20140624-story.html

 

 

Comments

[Stanley Henning]

As a graduate of the University of Hawaii with a Master of Arts in Overseas Operations, Asian Affairs, Chinese language in 1965, I feel able and responsible to point out a major issue I think should be considered by the political science focused academic community that is best expressed in the Confucian section of the Chinese Record of History: “Where there are civil matters there must be martial preparedness and where there are martial matters there must be civil preparedness.” This is a simple but all important explanation of what must be considered as interests crucial to national survival. A perfect recent situation in which our leaders failed to consider this was the Iraq fiasco which resulted in 4,000 US dead and a country now blowing itself apart. National security decisions must be made based on actual and likely situations, not shallow, individual attitudes, and our education system must emphasize this - it is not an issue of Democrats versus Republicans, it is a matter of understanding reality versus individual attitudes and preferences. If we do not successfully grasp this approach we will take our country down the path of total failure.

[Fred]

Walrus,

I loved this part: "he U.S. cannot partner with the Assad regime. ... so long as Assad remains in power, he will be a magnet for every jihadi worldwide to join the holy war against him."

I won't ask the obvious - since we are against Assad doesn't that make the US jihadis in a holy war against hem? Instead let me put it this way, assuming Mr. Ross is correct in his assertion. If Assad is in power he's killing jihadis. If we fund him the jihadis attack Assad and not the US. Thereby Assad continues to kill jihadis and zero US troops are at risk in combat? Why the hell can't we do that again?

[Samuelburke]

These Neocons, whether Israel firsters or, just plain ole vanilla American Imperialist are the DNA descendants of the Bolshevik Comintern International.

They create their own realities with lies, and the sad sack press just serve as their mouthpiece with no questions asked.

How did this Ideology get to permeate the Foreign policy establishment?

Dr Strangelove would be proud of the ideas he inspired.

They deserve to be confronted with the facts of their past failures and lies?

[Marcy C.]

Sir,
Mr. Obama seems subdued and distant. Mr. Kerry's middle east policy seems confused. The southern border of your country
is overrun by kids! I like America and Americans so these things leave me sad. Your enemies however, and there are so many of them, must be exulting at the state of affairs and thinking if America looks weak and adrift then maybe it really is in decline. Then perhaps the firing of incompetent people is not in order just to punish them, but is actually a sign of a country taking steps to protect itself.

[turcopolier]

Marcy K

You are Canadian and infected with the frequent Canadian freeloader attitude toward the US. We should start thinking of you all as something other than a protectorate. pl

[Fred]

Marcy,

yes, sad that all those states South of the border have failed so badly that parents will abandon their children. Notice how they are staying home, though. How many would your country like? I think at last count we've got about 11,000,000 illegals, not counting the latest group of kids. You can spend your country's money taking care of them. I'm sure the tax payers will love that.

[JohnH]

It seems that ISIL has mastered the divide and conquer strategy--fed by the West in Syria and so it can attack in Iraq.

The foreign policy establishment just can't comprehend that events in Iraq and Syria are part of a single problem. After all, aren't Iraq and Syria two different countries?

It's what happens when you have a entrenched, group-thinking foreign policy establishment fed by international relations programs (SAIS, Wilson) that indoctrinate rather than teach their students to think.

Time to clean house!

[Jim Ticehurst]

Spreaking of "Wormtongues" (and there are many) all one has to do is go to Wiki Quotes..find Condolezza Rice and put up the list of Her Quotes..Especially the One on Sept 24th 2001 to Wolf Blitzer.."I don't think anyone could have PREDICTED that These people would take an Air Plane and Slam it Into The World Trade Center.."
Yeh Right Condi..Last time they loaded explosives into a truck and drove into the Basement of the Trade Center....High Jacked Planes and Ships and and Murdered Civilians Aboard...Drove explosives into the Marine Barracks in Beruit..but "These People" were only here to Learn to Fly Airliners..Not Land or Take off and were so nice they weren't on anyones Radar or Attracting Attention..Your Regime Condi..let 9/11 go down ..and piled Tons of BS ion The American People afterwards..And You were a National Security Advisor and Secretary of State..? How did we get so Lucky..?

[Bandolero]

All

What I find very odd is that Dennis Ross seems to distinguish between "the U.S." and "we" - sometimes he uses one term, sometimes the other, in a very careful way.

So, who is we? Maybe the answer is in the pudding. The LA Times says: "Dennis Ross is counselor at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy..."

I guess these words might lead to the answer of the question who is we from the perspective of Dennis Ross.

[jr786]

@ Stanley Henning.

Excellent post. I watched Michale Morell on the Charlie Rose show recently and after 30 minutes or so of actually talking in power point speech about Iraq (5 key issues, 3 dangers, 4 scenarios, etc.) he finally gave up on the over-determinism and got to the main points for the US: Israel and oil prices.

But are those really the crux of the national interest? Has there ever been a genuine public/political debate on what the national interest should be?

[Ryan]

Fred,

That would make too much sense and because we are dealing with ideological fanatics of the Zionist stripe, it can't be permitted. It would be far better for the US to stay out of the mess altogether and if that means Iran and Syria cleaning it up, well, that's too bad. The neocons might be good at DC infighting, but when it comes to long term strategic planning are total failures.

"The fact that the Iranians also have reason to fear ISIS means we have converging but not identical interests."

Funny how the US can't take this approach when it comes to Israel.

"But Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan will not be responsive if they think fighting ISIS means the U.S. is prepared to leave the Sunnis vulnerable to Iran and its Shiite-backed militias."

Ross and his ilk should have thought about this prior to 19 March, 2003. Too late!

Dennis Ross is all over the map with this op-ed and attempting to use logic and critical thinking with it will only result in a major headache.

[turcopolier]

All

As a stakeholder in the foundation of both French and Anglo Canada I suppose that I can say that you could use a sizable infusion of Central American blood. pl

[Ryan]

The Obama administration is already seeing to this, sir.

[AEL]

Col:

I don't know about the rest of Canada, but here in Alberta we have quite a number of incoming Central Americans. After they get over the initial shock of winter, they make fine Canadians.

[alba etie]

Tyler
Sen Paul seems to be making some astute observations saying that the test should be would he be willing to send his sons or daughter to die fighting in Iraq .He said the answer to that is no . I truly hope he runs for President this time .

[alba etie]

jr786
What if we decided as a nation to take all the money we subsidize big oil & big coal with - tax breaks , etc and gave that money to GM to design & build a Volt style passenger van-- . Or to SolarBridge to completely rebuild our power grid based on solar & wind . The technology is already there to completely wean ourselves off the shrinking hydrocarbon teat - if we had the political will ..Then we would not have to give a tinkers damn about what a barrel of crude cost in SA .

[MRW]

It's not parents abandoning their children. The source of this are official-sounding TV news reports and newspaper reports by professional scammers in Guatemala (Honduras, too) stating that the US is now accepting women and children as citizens, call this number, and be prepared to spend X. One woman sold her house for US$17,000--she was told the price was $18,000--and borrowed the remaining $1,000.

She was in shock when she got to the border, via the scammer guy who took her money, to have the border patrol who captured her say she couldn't come in. Because the holding areas are clogged, the judge sent her to stay with her sister who lives here until her next appearance.

National Public Radio, who reported this investigative story about 10 days ago, said that the woman has no idea she will be deported when she goes back to court in two months. She thinks she's going back to court to get her US citizenship.

This high-level scam job is why 55,000 kids have been streaming across the border since the beginning of this year, not parents abandoning their children. Anyone who knows anything about the Latino/Hispanic community knows that there is strong family cohesiveness in their societies. It's the gangland/drug violence occurring there that they think they can spare their children by splitting their families, or urging their kids to get to safer ground.

[MRW]

"Then perhaps the firing of incompetent people is not in order just to punish them, but is actually a sign of a country taking steps to protect itself."

The problem is they won't fire them. The people who could, and should, are inured to the neocon drivel. Stanley Henning, above, has got it right.

[MRW]

Colonel,

She was using a Canajun softball to confirm that Walrus' idea of firing the bastards would be the first step to protecting itself from the "unstoppable demons from the abyss."

[MRW]

*Au fond*--a h/t to the Colonel's heritage--the neocons are Trotskyites with a new name, if anyone bothered to research it.

We spent all that time 'fighting communism' during the Cold War, the enemy changed names internally, and we fell for it. Horowitz, Podhoretz, both Kristols, look 'em up.

About that "Bolshevik Comintern International." Got that right. The historian Gabriel Kolko, who died recently in either Switzerland or the Netherlands, wrote a great piece call "Israel: Mythologizing a 20th Century Accident." In it he writes:

"For a time he [Herzl] was also a German nationalist and went through phases admiring Richard Wagner and Martin Luther. Herzl was many things, including a very efficient organizer, but he was also very conservative and feared that Jews without a state – especially those in Russia – would become revolutionaries. [me: The Trotskyites.]

A state based on religion rather than the will of all of its inhabitants was at the end of the 19th century not only a medieval notion but also a very eccentric idea, one Herzl concocted in the rarified environment of cafes where ideas were produced with scant regard for reality. It was also full of countless contradictions, based not merely on the conflicts between theological dogmas and democracy but also vast cultural differences among Jews, all of which were to appear later. Europe's Jews have precious little in common, and their mores and languages are very distinct. But the gap between Jews from Europe and those from the Arab world was far, far greater. Moreover, there were many radically different kinds of Zionism within a small movement, ranging from the religiously motivated to Marxists who wanted to cease being Jews altogether and, as Ber Borochov would have it, become "normal." In the end, all that was to unite Israel was a military ethic premised on a hatred of those "others" around them – and it was to become a warrior-state, a virtual Sparta dominated by its army. Initially, at least, Herzl had the fate of Russian and East European Jews in mind; the outcome was very different."
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/kolko.php?articleid=11058

The rest bears reading to understand why someone like Dennis Ross has a platform these days to spread the s**t that could be America's downfall. We, the people, are at fault for letting this bastard get away with it.

[MRW]

Stanley Henning,

Could not agree more.

[Ryan]

Maybe not "predicted", but it didn't stop Tom Clancy of writing of this in one of his novels, the target being the Capitol building years prior to 9/11.

Rice is a fool.

[MRW]

A little history lesson:
"Immigration — and the Curse of the Black Legend" by Tony Horwitz, NYT Op-Ed
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/opinion/09horwitz.html?_r=0

[MRW]

Just to clarify the record: according to NPR, these announcements in the paper and on air were accompanied by the US Great Seal, as if they were US official policy.

[Ryan]

I saw an example of this the other night on O'Reilly's spin show. He was arguing with Juan Williams over what would be called "hot pursuit" via air strikes into Syria. Williams pointed out that ISIS, while not caring for al-Nusra, were still one and the same when it came to extremism. Bill replied we didn't want to bomb al-Nusra because they were against Assad and he is our enemy, but ISIS was a threat to the US. So much for a show that purports to be about "news and analysis".

Jack Keane was on another program where he was talking about expanding the bombing campaign against ISIS by bombing targets in Syria. I would have loved to have asked him which targets did he have in mind. Al-Nusra and the ISIS or the Syrian Arab Army? These talking heads are vague on this point.