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30 June 2014

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Babak Makkinejad

Col. Lang:

The various historical caliphates of Umawids, Abbasid, and Ottoman were always considered illegitimate by the Shia.

This one would not be treated any differently.

The declaration of Caliphate also indicates the real historical illiteracy of its declarants - truly an ignoramus bunch - the Baptists of Islam.

JohnH

You have to admit that Abu Bakr is a great name for the first caliph in a long time. (The original Abu Bakr, the prophet's father in law, became the first caliph after Mohammed's death. He only lasted a couple years before his death.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_bakr

Of course, the Shia never recognized Abu Bakr, preferring the prophet's nephew Ali as the second caliph instead.

turcopolier

Babak

thanks. I have made it more inclusive. pl

robt willmann

Here is another ISIS video entitled The End of Sykes-Picot. The narrator is said to be from Chile and speaks some English. He talks about the erasing of the border between Iraq and Syria. He also mentions Jordan and then an Arabic word(s) that may refer to another country or countries. He is at a former border crossing where the video was made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyM0_sv5h88

Max

The other country mentioned is Quds (Jerusalem), i.e., Palestine/Israel. Very interesting video.

Ryan

"IMO, this declaration of the caliphate of Ibrahim is a terrible blunder for ISIS."

J.M. Berger agrees with you, sir.

"ISIS Risks Everything to Declare a Caliphate
After months of gaining territory, weapons, and cash, ISIS is putting its global credibility on the line in a play that could backfire spectacularly.

On Sunday morning, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS, or ISIL, if you must) pronounced the reformation of the caliphate—the historical Islamic state that once stretched over much of the modern-day Muslim world—with ISIS emir Abu Bakr al Baghdadi as the man in charge.

It’s arguably the boldest move yet by the group, which renamed itself simply The Islamic State. But if ISIS isn’t careful, this could be the moment when all of its gains in Iraq and Syria are squandered; when would-be allies are alienated; and when the group’s critics within the jihadi community were proven right all along."

More...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/29/isis-risks-everything-to-declare-a-caliphate.html

Arrogance combined with stupidity will get one every time. The neocons/R2P crowd are proof of that.

turcopolier

Ryan

who is Berger? pl

turcopolier

Max, old friend. "Quds," (the holy?) you think my committee needs that kind of tutorial? I have spent many years selecting them. pl

FB Ali

Col Lang,

Undoubtedly, governments in Muslim countries will reject this declaration. However, this 'caliphate' may well appeal to the many Muslims all over the world who want Islam to govern their lives and the countries in which they live, but who reject their present governments as not being Islamic. Especially vulnerable to such ideas would be young men in the Muslim diaspora, many of whom feel this need more acutely than their brethren back home. ISIS can expect an increase in Muslim recruits from the West.

What lends substance to this declaration by ISIS is its capture of a large piece of territory in the Muslim heartland, something the other jihadi outfits cannot match. Thus, the biggest challenge posed by this move is to other jihadi outfits, especially al Qaeda. ISIS can now claim that the only 'true' jihad is the one it is waging, while theirs are false jihads. And those who fight ISIS will be branded as renegades waging an insurrection against Islam. This will undoubtedly have an impact on the followers of these outfits, both current and potential.

Matthew

Max: ISIS's interest in Palestine is the final insult to Palestinians. As if the joy of Israeli occupation wasn't ghastly enough, the Palestinians can now look forward to ISIS's "liberation."

AS my college newspaper editor used to say, "Don't worry. It only gets worse."

turcopolier

FB ali

I fully understand the fell potential of this caliphate. I awaited your comment. pl

jr786

Interesting. I hope we don't hear comments from the State Department or the White House press office on how this can't be a legitimate attempt at restoration of the Caliphate because of blah, blah, blah.

Surely this is a moment of great historical resonance. Here we read comments from people with experience and historical awareness - I hope the Administration follows suit.

Ryan

This is a brief bio, sir.

"J.M. Berger is a journalist who writes about homegrown extremism. He is the author of Jihad Joe: Americans Who Go to War in the Name of Islam and a recent New America Foundation policy paper on the FBI’s infiltration of the Patriot movement."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/contributors/j-m--berger.html

I posted the link to his article because I found it to be interesting. More importantly, he came to a view quite similar to the one you hold independently.

This is important because as someone who watches the crap on cable with the various "experts" I've seen only two so far who have expressed the opinion that the ISIS fanatics will be rejected at large.

Before too long I believe you, Berger and a few others will be proven correct. These cable tv people are behind the OODA loop on this one just like they were on how ISIS came about as being combat effective in the operational sense. Again, you and a couple of others wrote or said a week earlier that the military know how was provided by former NCOs and officers of Saddam's Army before these worthies realized this.

Highlander

I don't see it. At most the core of this group acting in Iraq can't add up to more than 2 to 3 thousand real fighters. They are floating on a sea of support from the indigenous Sunni population, who are rightly fed up with being screwed by the Shia/Obama led national government.

They can't have any logistics support net work of any strength. No ability to repair equipment, etc, etc. Yea, as long as they and the Iraqi Sunnis stay kiss kiss all will be well, but that won't last.

turcopolier

highlander

We are talking about the power of an idea as Lawrence said, drifting across the land. pl

Highlander

I don't underestimate the power of an idea, especially one fueled by religious extremism.

But this group of Islamic nuts, are soon going to run into opposition from the other nuts, plus governments, plus tribal chieftains, etc, etc. Let them take Bagdhad, and then I'll be a little more respectful.

bookwurm

mmm, i would go with Pentacostal's of the snake handling denomination...

Kerim

Sir,
I fully agree with your perspective. Especially the point about young Muslim men in Western Europe. And things will only get worse as the economy deteriorates.
Also, now that there is a geographic reality for this DI, things have become qualitatively different.
The brutality and extremism of these lunatics is probably a hindrance to them attracting significant support across the Muslim world. But if they became less bloodthirsty and fanatic, they could really be onto something.
But then again, true believers have a binary approach to the world, so....

M. Oline

Turcopolier:

When we are dealing with a belief system 1300 years old a quote that is 88 years old seems modern to me:
"Arabs could be swung on an idea as on a cord; for the unpledged allegiance of their minds made them obedient servants. None of them would escape the bond until success had come..." Seven Pillars - T. E. Lawrence

r whitman

PL-
Will this group eventually be "for sale" for US Dollars as many other groups are around the world?

turcopolier

r Whitman

Revolutions eventually burn themselves out but this one will burn for a long time. pl

Babak Makkinejad

You wrote:

" But if they became less bloodthirsty and fanatic..."

As is said in Persian:

"Wolfe's Repentance is Death."

Babak Makkinejad

Boxer Rebellion.

turcopolier

babal

"55 days at Peking?" A great movie. pl

confusedponderer

The Saudis and Qataris thought these folks were for sale, and Prince Bandar thought they were controllable.

They all erred and their pets have declared war on them.

I doubt they will be for sale. These folks are about salvation, not profit. However, if there is a ned, they probably will find a way to reconcile that with need to fiance themselves. Other groups have.

But after The Grand Kirkuk Bank Robbery ISIS must be flush with money. More money is unliklly to impress them.

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