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09 May 2014

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b

Yak-130 as successor for A-10 or SU-25: One big difference - while the Yak can fly slow and low and has decent weapon capabilities it has no, as in zero, protection for the pilot. No titanium bathtub or the like. It is a trainer that can do some groundwork when needed. It is not a real earth eater.

Sure, better than risking an expensive fast mover. But I'd rather fly something different for close air support.

Basilisk

Well, since I'm not on the Yakovlev/Aermacchi marketing team, let me temper that. I personally like the Yak-130 very much as an adnanced trainer and even for fighter lead-in if your Air Force flies MiGs. It is, however not comparable to the A-10 or even the Su-25 FROGFOOT in terms of pilot protection. The Russian Air Force turned the Yak-131 (the single seat ground attack variant) down on account of that factor.

That said, the air defense environment over the rebel-held areas may be relatively permissive. Plenty of people have been hammered by the A-37 Dragonfly in various theaters. The yak 130 looks more formidable than the heat-packing version of A-37 Tweetie Bird.

I would guess the new little Yak will be a net gain for the Syrian Air Force if only on aesthetic grounds.

patrick lang

Basilisk and b

You are just being mean to me. pl

Fred

Isn't being able to fly away a whole lot better protection than the guy on the ground getting shot at by these things has?

turcopolier

fred

Yes. I spent a lot of time in an O-1 Bird Dog flying with USAF FAC pilots. These guys were remarkably free of the "Goden BB" worries of many. pl

Tyler

That YAK is a pretty little plane.

ex-PFC Chuck

What do you retired career military people think of the USAF's recently announced plan to kill off the A-10?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/07/buck-mckeons-a-10-sell-out/

MS2

In addition to the pilot protection issue, the Yak-130 weapons load is 40% that of an A-10.

Its gun (gsh-301) is an interesting design, in that it manages to be very light weight (so that it can be put in such a tiny plane) and fire 30mm shells, but it does this by being partly disposable, needing a barrel replacement if the pilot feels a need for a 7-10 second burst, or about 80 seconds of cumulative use. All in all it is possibly a smart design, if you have a hard boiled perspective on pilots' lives.

I just finished a book on flying with the USAAF 8th air force in WW2, and the perspective on the value of aviators' lives embodied in the Yak 130 design is still advanced relative to how it was back then. The comparison to ground pounders should be considered in light of the fact that the only worse job category in WW2 was german Uboat crew.

confusedponderer

Take comfort in that it is a brilliantly designed airplane that is said to have spectacularly good flight characteristics. Apparently the chief designer Konstantin Popovich did a good job.

It's so good in fact that it's western derivative, the Italian version Aermacchi M-346 just may become NATO's, and under a suitably Americanised name even America's to gloss over it's Russian origins, standard andvanced trainer.

"In the United States, Alenia Aermacchi plans on bidding the M-346 Master for the United States Air Force's T-X program to replace the aging Northrop T-38 Talon. The company had initially considered submitting the aircraft as the prime contractor, but changed its mind in 2010. The company also rebranded the aircraft as the T-100 Integrated Training System for the competition. Alenia anticipates moving the final assembly location from Italy to the United States if it wins the competition. About 350 aircraft are expected to be ordered to replace the T-38, but further purchases could push the overall purchase to over 1,000.[22] In January 2013, Alenia Aermacchi signed a letter of intent with defense contractor General Dynamics to compete for the T-X program business. Under the agreement, General Dynamics C4 Systems will serve as prime contractor for the M-346 and related training systems."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_Aermacchi_M-346_Master

jon

Blowback is a bitch. I guess it works the same everywhere. There was a good article a few months back, that reported on a rural Yemini minority in Saudi Arabia. Systematically discriminated against by the government, they have provided many of the most committed alQaeda operatives.

Rare statement of sanity from the IAEC. I wonder where there information comes from? Netanyahu and his supports are creating so many problems. I hope they sometime are able to realize how much damage they have brought to causes they support.

turcopolier

jon

"a rural Yemini minority in Saudi Arabia. Systematically discriminated against by the government, they have provided many of the most committed alQaeda operatives." This would be in Asir Province in the SW, specifically the Wadi Najran. I used to creep about there a bit and never knew what would happen. pl

nick b

ex-PFC Chuck,

I saw this article on Bloomberg the other day. Perhaps it is of interest.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-06/combat-vets-champion-warthog-plane-brass-wants-scrapped.html

oofda

The first 9 Yak-130 attack aircraft will be trainers. It will take a while for the Syrain Air Force to be fully operational- training for pilots will take a while. Also the logistics train has to be estblished and maintenance people trained. Further, the deliveries of the Yak-130 to the Russian Air Force have been slow- so it may take a while for the entire order to get to Syria.
The Syrian AF already has a decent ground attack capability against the insurgents- with Su-22. Su-24, MiG-21 and other fighter-attack aircraft, along with attack helos. Correct in that this is not a game-changer, especially in the short run, but an excellent follow-up to the Frogfoot. We may also even see the Italian Aermacchi M-346, which has the basic design of hte Yak-130, in the USAF, as the firm is expected to bid on the successor to the A-10- whenever that happens.

Charles I

Perhaps in time you can tell us a bit about what DID happen. . . .

turcopolier

Fred

That's what Jubal Early said about cavalry. He said that anybody who could get on a horse and ride away from a fight his infantry was in was just a------s. pl

turcopolier

Charles I

If you like. When I was DATT in North Yemen the northern end of the country was not really under government control. There was a big shooting war going on between the gov. and the wily National Democratic Front Guerrillas run out of the PDRY and supported by the Soviets. These guerrillas were mostly Sunnis. I spent a lot of time covering that war accompanying the YAR 8th Commando Brigade and their USSR advisers. The Sovs supported both sides in that war. But north of Sanaa the population were pretty much all Zeidi Shia tribesmen of the Baqil abd Hashid confederations. They were just about as heavily armed as the government and many had served in the army before defecting to back home with their equipment, I used to go up there to buy odd weapons in the weapons suq in one of the towns. North of the Zaidi tribesmen were another Arab tribe, this one semi-nomad. They were and are called the "Banu Yam." North of them was the border with S. Arabia and north of them was the Wadi (valley) Najran filled with a lot of Sunni Yemeni (more or less) villagers who are the people the Saudis keep crapping on with their Beduin National Guard troops from the Najd. I crossed the border a few times with yam guides to talk to villagers and see how far the Saudi had moved the border markers since the last time I had been there. This was a Saudi game they like to play. The stones moved steadily southward. How did I get away with this? Hey! I'm a charming guy in an Arab rural context. Abdullah al Shami my driver and I always brought a lot of nice presents bought with ICF (ask TTG) and neither he nor I would hesitate to shoot you if you looked like you needed it. I did the same thing in the opposite direction when I was DATT in Jiddah. pl

Norbert M Salamon

Off topic:
Some might be interested in reading analysis of Russian ideas re Ukraine at
Conflict Forum Weekly Comment 25
Published May 5, 2014
I believe the author is A. Cook?? of UK MI6 [ret]

Charles I

Thank you sir. Respect and generosity get you a long way in this world, charming as you may be.

I recall reading accounts of similar activity on the Durrand Line.

One with my limited knowledge is imaging that if the shite has come home to the Saudi roost, is it a country that could withstand a really savage campaign, is the SNG for instance, an institution that can keep a country together? Could the economy stand an expat flight?

turcopolier

Charles I

Everyone has waited for the collapse of the House of Saud for as long as I have been in the business. Don't hold your breath while waiting. Everyone in the country is co-opted or intimidated and the secret police act with impunity. pl

Castellio

Thanks for that.

Fred

Col, Lee's "Bad Old Man" had a point.

Alba Etie

Col Lang
I did the google on DATT & did not find that acronym.
May I ask what is a DATT ?

turcopolier

AE

"Defense Attache." The senior military officer in a US Embassy. pl

turcopolier

All

"Jeff" continued to be nastily combative in yet more material and I have dispensed with him. pl

Alba Etie

Col Lang
Thank you .

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