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23 May 2014

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turcopolier

Poul

I have killed too many. I have no further taste for it.pl

jdledell

Highlander - I am Jewish but that should make no difference in my observations. I am often questioned why I am so critical of Israel when it is my tribe. The answer is a story I learned at my Grandfather's knee.

He was run out of France in 1943 and escaped to Israel. There he joined Irgun. He was a regular fighter and his specialty was fertilizer bombs. In October, 1947 he was on patrol on the outskirts of Haifa. That morning an arab came out of his house to sit on his front step to drink his coffee and smoke a cigarette. My grandfather raised his rifle and shot and killed the man. It was an act that bothered my grandfather enormously.

After the War of Independence my grandfather moved to America to join the rest of his family that he had sent here before the Nazis took over France. This particular act of violence bothered him almost daily. As a young boy I would listen to his tales of early Israel and when reciting this story, he would always cry out "What have I become?"

As a Jew, this is why I raise my voice in criticizing Israel for never again do I want to hear the cry "What have WE become?".

Fred

Imagine,

So 9 stolen nukes and it is kept secret by killing only one man? All those enlisted men and junior officers who would have been on duty when those were stolen must feel especially safe that nobody is after them. Surprising how they've kept their mouths shut all this time.

The Twisted Genius

jdledell,

That's a powerful story about your grandfather. His constant remorse shows he was a man of conscience. It's a reminder that we are all sinners and children of God.

Accounts like yours and Colonel Lang's need to be publicized repeatedly although it's almost a futile effort in the face of the pervasive MSM and zionist control of the narrative. I knew Palestinian youths and young men who were technically adept and aware of the power of information. I wish they could help organize a long term pervasive campaign to record and publicize true conditions in Palestine and Israel. I'm under no illusions this would be easy or bloodless. Israeli countermeasures would be competent, swift and brutal. Palestinian "info warriors" would need outside help just to survive, never mind be successful, but I don't know where it would come from... but I have some ideas.

lally

I do believe that your father is proud of the man you have become. Bravo.

FB Ali

I am surprised to find in the columns of this blog comments as ignorant and obnoxious as Highlander's. They don't deserve the dignity that has been accorded them by refuting them.

As has been well established in the fields of domestic assault and sexual aggression, blaming the victims for the violence perpetrated against them is a ludicrous and repulsive argument.

Branding a whole religion, culture or group through the actions of some of its members is a recognized odious practice of hate speech.

Such nonsensical and detestable arguments deserve to be simply ignored.

turcopolier

Fb Ali

I was surprised as well and still am, but decided to let him carry the burden of his remarks. pl

Highlander

David,

Two points, 1. There have been several studies confirming the Jewish high IQ advantage. 2. The American Evangelical community's support for Israel in the most part, is based on its apparent purpose of fulfilling biblical prophesy. If all the Jews seize upon Jesus as their personal savior, so much the better, but that is not crucial to fulling the prophesy). ( I personally don't think it will happen. It has become apparent to me over the years that the Jewish people have an active antipathy to christians and christianity.)

Disclaimer: When the Episcopalian Church stopped believing in the deity of Christ, I left them. And now, I am a bible thumping, holy rolling, evangelical. But alas, I still do my share of sinning.

David Habakkuk

F. B. Ali,

I think this is quite a complex issue.

If one is trying to make sense of the contemporary world, the impact on Jews of the Holocaust is a critical element which has to be understood. One is dealing with an immensely complex phenomenon.

If people have been the victims not only of centuries of persecution, but of an attempt actually to liquidate them – ‘genocide’ in a quite literal sense, rather than in the frivolous senses in which the term is commonly bandied about by the R2P people and the like – one can expect that this leaves a very deep trauma. And, quite patently, it does.

But then, the Holocaust has also become something which is manipulated for all kinds of instrumental purposes – in ways which in my view are fraught with catastrophic potentialities.

In different ways, both jdledell and ‘Highlander’ are opening windows on these complexities, and I have found what both have had to say very illuminating.

This is all the more the case, because what both of them say helps open up a complicated and very difficult area. Most of us are divided creatures, in one way or another, pulled in different ways by different loyalties: among other things, the conflict between ‘tribal’ and more universalistic loyalties is one that pulls many people in different directions.

Of course, I find jdledell’s positions more sympathetic than I do those of ‘Highlander’.

But I also think that ‘Highlander’ is helping opening the doors to an understanding of elements that are present in the attitudes of many American as well as Israeli Jews, which are usually not candidly expressed. And these are elements which have to be understood, if we are to get out of the appalling, and potentially absolutely catastrophic, mess in which we find ourselves.

Certainly, the apparent total inability of 'Highlander' to see where jdledell is coming from might be taken as an argument for cutting him out of the conversations on this blog. But then, precisely because of the candour with which he says things others keep hidden, we might be the losers if we shut him out.

As also, might he.

Highlander

No, I wasn't trying to be offensive to jdiedell. I thought it possible that he might be a Christian Arab.

My personal opinion is ,if the Arabs ever do attain a power break through on the Israelis. Then the blood lust will take hold, and the slaughter will be extreme.

It is not like that hasn't happen before in the land of Israel.

FB Ali

Col Lang,

I applaud your adherence to the practice of free speech. It is only when someone deliberately tries to create mischief, or persists in offensive speech, that it is worth considering censorship.

In this case it unfortunately seems that the gentleman actually believes in these views. As you rightly decided, the best antidote in such cases is to let them expose their biases or ignorance to public scrutiny.

MRW

It wasn't MLK. It was Ella Baker. You should read more.

MRW

Agree. Israel's days are marked. The tedium of it self-justification in the 21st C is no longer acceptable. And no amount of anti-semitic screeches will alter it. Israel has had 70 years. Time's up. And they f**ked up. Nobody I know gives a shit anymore. It's called a self-fulfilling prophesy. They can eat shit and pound sand. Cruelty will be met with cruelty.

Karim

Highlander,

"A sophisticated campaign of non violence would have won the day for the Pali's by now."

Really. Perhaps this random selection of links found by searching "Palestinian Gandhi" might interest you then:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-hart/khader-adnan-palestine_b_1285227.html
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/08/30-0
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/12/palestine-s-gandhi-civil-disobedience-the-best-hope-for-peace.html
http://forusa.org/blogs/joe-groves/beyond-peace-process-part-2-where-palestinian-gandhi/12914

I could go on. But you could also just look up the village of Bil'in, starting perhaps with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bil%27in

Non-violence only works sometimes. Gandhi's movement came at a time when the British Empire was bled dry, Martin Luther King succeeded because his movement was mediatised and most white Americans had by that time decided that they did not want to slaughter thousands of Blacks. Mandela turned from violence to non-violence a long time before apartheid ended, and its end was facilitated by the ending of the Cold War. Had the Cold War not ended he would probably have died in jail.

So, Palestinians have used non-violent means for a very long time, but it has brought them as little success as their violent struggle (until recently, because their campaigns have started receiving a little more positive media attention, both in Israel and in the West). As for the idea that Islam has anything to do with it because it is a backward religion, well, with all due respect, that is a ridiculous assertion. It is no more or less backward than any other religion (although I will grant you that many of its adherents today are backward). Or have you never watched God TV? If you did, you would hear nice white Protestants calling all Catholics Satanists and pretty much praying for their extermination.

turcopolier

FB ali

Thanks. I am going to ban the use of the term "Pali." It sounds a bit too much like "Nigger" for me to allow it. pl

FB Ali

I would second that. The first step in dehumanising some group (and thus making it easier to denigrate them -- or worse) is often to attach some such epithet to them.

"Paki" was once quite popular in England (though it was more often applied to Bangladeshis than Pakistanis). In earlier times, Chinks and Japs were also in vogue.

FB Ali

David,

I don't think we needed Highlander's comments to understand the views of Israeli extremists and their American supporters.

I am not at all sure that the racial superiority they display, and its often vicious expression, are due to the effects of the Holocaust upon the Jewish psyche. Too many other groups that have never undergone such a traumatic experience have and still do display such behaviour (the Nazis, for example, and modern fascists).

In marked contrast, JD Ledell's posts shed a touching light on the plight of many Jews who adhere to the beliefs and values of their great faith, but may have acted against them under pressing circumstances. I am sure there are many in Israel who live with such dilemmas daily.

As I have clarified in my reply to Col Lang, I did not desire Highlander's banning. I just did not think his comments were worthy of discussing.

The surprise I expressed in my original post was due to the fact that the comments of the people who post on this blog are invariably sane and balanced, and often display a remarkable human empathy, a virtue rather rare these days. Highlander's comment was so different!

Tigershark

Thank you for the banning of that term. I find your reason absolutely correct. And for the reasons FB Ali states.

Imagine

Political reform must come from within, it comes from the "greater meaning & purpose" corner of the personality that has to do with faith, passion, and being inspired. Obama tapped into this across all the masses with the Hope & Change, Yes We Can campaign. A higher cause. This provides brownie/utility points vs. the earth-plane venality of money and survival.

However, all politicians who come to office experience a Holy Crap moment that the real world is more complex than hope & change. The challenge is whether they can stay the course, ruling for the good of the people, as opposed for the local good of themselves/cronies/backers. Bruce Bueno de Mesquita believes ALL fail. I'm not so sure.

I believe current Israel, like past South Africa, keeps in power through censorship; lack of spread of local information; and nescience (anti-knowledge, pls re-read chapt. 16 of R.A.Wilson's "Prometheus Rising", it's worth it). As the Internet improves the velocity of global transparency to hours not years, transients decay faster. The powers' mission then becomes to stop the spread of information (cf. Iran's social media bans). Sunlight is the best disinfectant; vampires can't stand it.

Of course most Israelis are decent people who believe that what their government is doing is justified and just, just as most Americans are decent people who believe the same of Washington (Gitmo not withstanding). Change only comes from working through, not paving over, the cognitive dissonance created by in-your-face confrontation of the evil that leaders of the government are doing in your name.

Opinions on strategy and tactics on this vary. Organizations such as Jewish Voice for Peace (http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/) take the inclusive, loving, subtle route. Sorta like classic aikido: "violence only hurts the perpetrator; if I love you, I'm going to redirect then ground your energy, so that you no longer hurt yourself and others". Dancing with wolves.

Steven Seagal had a more direct route. "First you hit them over the head with a 2x4. That's to get their attention. THEN you redirect their energies so they flywheel apart from their own internal forces." I am concerned, in this age of shallow listening, that he might have had a point.

Israel right now is locally stable, due to sheer dictatorial willpower, but globally unstable. Honesty, sunlight, fairness are stable. The phase transition from suppression into mutual cooperation can be smooth or chaotic; denial builds up retribution energy and makes reverberations worse. "What goes around, comes around"; and, rather than choosing the high road, Israel has doubled-down on settlements and de facto genocide.

Israel will be happier when it choose the side of truth.

People can help make the coming transition more smooth by spreading the truth, as rapidly as possible.

Since even Israeli citizens are fed censored propaganda and do not know what their own government is doing, yes this also includes sunshine / inspirational campaigns in Israel itself. Go for it.

Highlander

MRW,

Americans have done a pretty good job of destroying their own culture without much outside help.

Highlander

What about "rednecks" is that okay? I mean after all they are just Caucasian trash. Who I might add are getting the royal economic screws put to them as we speak.

I didn't mean anything by Pali. It was just an abbreviation. I call the English "BRITS", I guess that makes me a horrible man. Oh the atrocity of it all!!!!Jesus H Christ! Where will this OH SO DELICATE political correctness bullshit end?

Imagine

Point.

A cursory search gives at least the unconfirmed following related deaths-list:

CIA agent / dock exports inspector Roland Carnaby
Airman 1st Class Todd Blue
U.S. Air Force Captain (special forces) John Frueh
Senior Airman Clint Huff
First-Lieutenant Weston Kissel
Senior Airman Adam Barrs
John Wheeler III, special assistant to Air Force Secretary
U.S. Air Force official, Charles D. Riechers
General Russell Elliot Dougherty

any of which may or may not actually be related, without affecting the relevance of the others. We have one confirmed landfill death, and one killed dock inspector replaced by an Israeli firm. One death should be enough.

It is not my field. I am merely hoping to bring this to the attention of such people who do chase these things down and protect our country.

Fred

Highlander, when did redneck start meaning "Caucasian trash"?

Imagine

Victimhood gives indefinite license for unlimited cruelty.

Cf. the Iraq war, as justified by paybacks for 9/11.

turcopolier

imagine

In spite of the Stargate narrative the USAF has never had "special forces." The Air Commandos were an aviation unit. pl

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