"Kremlin regrets approval of punitive operation in southeast of Ukraine - Putin spokesman"

“The Russian president is extremely concerned over the developments in Ukraine and the way it is interpreted in the international community, some countries of the international community,” Peskov said.

He also noted that the Russian president was receiving in a round-the-clock regime information about the developments in the southeast of Ukraine. “Intelligence and related agencies report to him,” Peskov added." itar-tass

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IMO Putin is minimally involved in the unrest in SE Ukraine.  It is asserted that Russian Spetznaz and the like are running the show.  I doubt it.  The Russians undoubtedly have some operatives in Ukraine but I do not think they are causative in the unrest.  Putin knows how much Russia will lose if sectoral sanctions are applied.  Russia can find other customers in the east for their oil and gas but the economic hardship while they are doing that will be impressive.  

The NY times article linked below is illustrative of the number of former Russian and Soviet soldiers who are to be found in the population of eastern Ukraine.  Many of them are combat men from Afghanistan. They have a lot of old equipment, but as many soldiers will tell you, the old stuff is often quite good enough.   The lack of new "kit" is, as the commander of 12 Company remarks, indicative of a lack of Russian government support.

The US propaganda mill continues to sell the WH line that Russia is altogether to blame for unrest in Ukraine.  What a joke!  Do people really believe this? pl 

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730317

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=1

Comments

[Anna-Marina]

Here is a clearly articulated explanation of why the electorate will not be able to affect the US actions anywhere in the world:
http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11839

More and more people acknowledge that the so called "state policy" is in fact "oligarchs' policy." Recent research at Princeton and Northwestern universities confirms the sad fact: the US is ruled by the oligarchs for the oligarchs:
http://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

[ToreBear]

Karim
Sorry for not replying sooner. Thank you for the input on the sniper issue. I think there was supposed to be UK experts involved in the investigation, but haven't heard anything more about it. I wouldn't expect to hear anything until the investigation is complete anyway. I will keep this in mind, and hope there will in the future be a situation that allows an impartial investigation to be conducted and concluded. Right now there can be so many different motives, and players involved due to all the oligarchs who might also have an interest in something.

So we will see.

As for the OSCE military observers, they were not part of the Geneva initiative, but they were still OSCE observers on another mission. There is AFAIK another mission related to the elections. I'm very sure that the Russian government saw them as OSCE observers. However the Russian media machine used initial tweets from the Geneva initiated mission to create doubt about their origin.

As for what they were doing in Sloviansk , and why there were there is not something I am aware of.

My theory is that the Sloviansk separatists wanted OSCE presence, but were surprised when all of them had military ID's. But other explanations could be equally valid.

[ToreBear]

FB Ali

Sorry for the late reply. No, bias support is not one of my selection criteria.:-)

Thank you for the link. I have bookmarked it.

[Karim]

ToreBear,

You say "I think there was supposed to be UK experts involved in the investigation, but haven't heard anything more about it. I wouldn't expect to hear anything until the investigation is complete anyway." I imagine that if there were a UK investigative mission, you would be hearing from it at least on a weakly basis, especially if their initial findings conformed to the UK gov's narrative.

"I will keep this in mind, and hope there will in the future be a situation that allows an impartial investigation to be conducted and concluded." So do I. Let me know when that's the case :)

With regards to the military observers: they were NOT OSCE observers. They were operating within the framework of the Vienna Document, which, while signed under the auspices of the OSCE, has nothing to do with the OSCE organisationally. It is a treaty enjoining OSCE member-states to invite military observers to inspect each others' armies on a bilateral, voluntary basis as a confidence-building measure. The Kiev gov. invited observers from several countries (most were German).

Now, first of all, these are supposed to be peace-time missions. They are not for conflict monitoring. Second, on such missions the observers are required to wear their uniforms. These were not doing so. Third, the area where they were captured was in the middle of a conflict. They had been invited by one party to the conflict, supposedly to inspect ITS armed forces. To go into the area controlled by the other party to the conflict, disguised as civilians, is one of two things: incredibly stupid and irresponsible, or espionnage.

Here is an explanation from the OSCE (see page 2):
http://www.osce.org/secretariat/116879?download=true

The observers are from "OSCE participating states", not part of the OSCE mission. Attempts to describe them as OSCE observers serve one purpose, to give an aura of "international organization" neutrality, and so legitimacy, to a questionable mission. Again: they were invited by Kiev but tried to enter opposition areas, and they were illegally wearing civilian clothes. To use an exaggerated example, the media's twisting of "observers from OSCE participating states" into "OSCE observers" is akin to Russia proclaiming its Spetznaz in Crimea were Blue Helmets because Russia is a UN participating state. Although of course I don't know if the little green men were Spetznaz; I am waiting for "a situation that allows an impartial investigation to be conducted and concluded".

[Karim]

ToreBear,

Sorry for the double post. There was one more point I wished to address. You wrote: "However the Russian media machine used initial tweets from the Geneva initiated mission to create doubt about their origin."

Is this the tweet in question? https://twitter.com/OSCE/status/459747578297716736

There appears little need to "create doubt" out of this. It is quite unequivocal.

Here is a clip of Claus Neukirch, Vice-President of the OSCE Crisis Prevention Centre, stating on Austrian TV that the observers are not part of the OSCE mission:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWeU_4UEAq8

At the start, he corrects the interviewer:"I would like to point out that they are not actually OSCE employees. They are military observers who are there on a bilateral basis in the framework of an OSCE document" (the Vienna Document).

You are quick, and correct, to point out the propaganda from the "Russian media machine". I fear however that you are not so ready to detect the same forms of manipulation in Western media. A further example: a couple of minutes later, the interviewer asks him what risk assessments the OSCE did before sending the observers. "None", he says, before again having to point out that it WAS NOT an OSCE mission.

Of course, this could just be an example of shoddy research; the interviewer may have drawn up a list of questions on the assumption that they were OSCE observers and then idiotically run through these questions despite Neukirch's first answer having rendered them obsolete. But this does not explain why every media outlet thereafter continued to refer to them as OSCE observers.