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28 April 2014

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turcopolier

SamuelBurke

When someone like Kerry can criticize Israel and not be forced to apologize, that would be a tipping point. pl

turcopolier

Peggy

"Does he claim the right to say what's what now?" No. pl

SamuelBurke

Speaking of President Carter, his stance on Israel/Palestine has been nothing short of stellar in my view.

This is from the Forward.com feb 2007 article.

Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, addressed the fears head-on last week in an address to Israel's prestigious Herzliya Conference. Lamenting what he called „the poisoning of America," Hoenlein painted a dire picture of American public discourse turning increasingly anti-Jewish and anti-Israel in the year ahead.

Hoenlein dated the trend to the 2005 arrest of two former employees of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, on charges of passing classified national security information. Hoenlein argued that the Jewish community made a major mistake by not forcefully criticizing the arrests.

Speaking via video, Hoenlein listed several events that had occurred since then: the release of the essay criticizing the Israel Lobby by two distinguished professors, Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer; the publication of former president Jimmy Carter‚s best-selling book, „Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid"; the suggestion by former NATO supreme commander and Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark that „New York money people" were pushing America into war, and claims by former U.S. weapons inspector Scott Ritter that Israel is pushing the United States to attack Iran.

turcopolier

rick

"Israel might become an apartheid state." Israel has been an apartheid state for many years. The wall merely formalized the situation. Palestinians have been subject to movement and residence controls for decades. Was that not the essence of South African apartheid? There are police checkpoints all over Israel and the West Bank, even in the areas supposedly under PA administration. When we were there three years ago a woman Israeli police person tried to drag my wife out of my hired car to take her away for interrogation. The reason? This police person did not think that my wife's US passport picture looked like her. This was not true. It looks exactly like her. The woman was just in a mood to abuse foreigners. In another such incident my car was halted on the road for no discernible reason while "ze papers" of my Israeli Arab driver were examined in detail for half an hour by Israeli traffic police. The vehicle and the driver were from the "American Colony Inn" in Jerusalem. In the end they took my driver away for some clerical error in his commercial license and left us sitting in the car without a driver. In yet another incident we watched an IDF infantry company run a checkpoint at the northern limit of Israeli direct administration in the West Bank. These teen aged "soldiers" had a great time mocking the Palestinian men going through the checkpoint on their way home from work. They had them get out of their vehicles and made them dance in the road while calling out, "Dance, monkey, dance" Most of the troops stood by the road clapping and laughing in time with the "dancing." Arab men do not like being made to dance like a monkey in front of their women and children. May become an apartheid state? Really? pl

Fred

Col.

That didn't take long. Looks like Mr. Flip-Flop is keeping his principles intact:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0429/John-Kerry-backpedals-on-Israel-s-apartheid-future

confusedponderer

Hey, as long as Palestinians only must drive Palestinains roads and have their distinctive license plates and are not forced to wear, say, green armbands or something of the sort everything is just peachy.

The people you described behaved like thugs in an authoritarian system that allows them to lord it over others with impunity and displayed the moral degradation that comes with that. It also sheds some light on what must be serious disciplinary problems with the IDF.

turcopolier

CP

The IDF ground force is a militia army that has no corps of adult NCOs. What can you expect? See my post "the IDF Ground Force"under "The Military art." http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/01/the-idf-ground.html
pl

turcopolier

CP

There are many roads that Palestinians are not allowed to drive on, and there are many places they simply cannot go or live in. What do you think would happen to an Israeli Arab or a Palestinian from the occupied territories if he wanted to buy a house in Herzliya Petua or any Israeli settlement? pl

confusedponderer

He wouldn't be able to.

These are 'ethnically pure settlements'. Some even reject Reform Jews for not being Jewish enough.

Margaret Steinfels

His effusive self-congratulations for having supported Israel for all these years, led me to think that perhaps he was claiming that right.

After all, if your best buddy won't tell you what's going on, who will?

Tyler

"Tikka Olam" is what they take as their license to meddle. They're up to their old tricks in the US as well.

Tyler

White northeastern liberals who live in majority white zip codes painting everyone not as enlightened as them with a broad brush? I'm sure it was as much a shock to you as it was to me.

FDixon

Re: Imagine:South African Human Sciences Research Council
You provided a very important and excellent link.
I followed up and checked out summary at Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa and found a well documented and well reasoned summary of how International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid defines apartheid and how current Israeli laws align.
I was well aware of descrimination within Israel and occupied territories but not of the codified definition of apartheid.
Thanks,
fd

The Twisted Genius

This was all foreseen by "The Onion."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/government-official-who-makes-perfectly-valid-well,20499/

robt willmann

Peggy asked whether John Kerry can as secretary of state say what's what now after his retreat from the word "apartheid" and his pledge to be loyal to a foreign country, Israel. Col. Lang said Kerry could not. Exactly. And that was the purpose of it all.

The technique used is to get out a personal attack on the person who made the statement and make it sound as if he has violated some moral standard of society, and to go one step further than that ad hominem attack to say that he should apologize or resign. And get as many people as possible to say it and then see that it is publicized far and wide. The Bankster Bailout Boy, representative Eric Cantor (Repub., Virginia) said Kerry should apologize. Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who sadly has drunk the Kool Aid, went to the floor of the Senate to say Kerry should resign. A talk radio show host, Mark Levin, who had been a lawyer in the Reagan administration, said outright last night on his program that Kerry was an anti-semite. And so on.

People who want to prevent a robust discussion on the matter of Palestinians, Palestine, and Israel were rolling on the floor laughing today, and will be celebrating with champagne tonight, as over just a few days they have neutralized two well-known politicians on the Palestinian - Israeli issue.

John Kerry yesterday, when "his" backpedaling statement was put on the state department's website--

http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2014/04/225326.htm

And Senator Rand Paul today (29 April), when he introduced the "Stand With Israel Act of 2014"--

http://www.paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1145

His press release has the text of the proposed law, which has a list of six things the Palestinians have to do before the Palestinian government gets any aid (money) from the U.S. taxpayer. But it says nothing about what the government of Israel has to do before it gets U.S. taxpayer money.

The technique used on Rand Paul is one used on Congress to inoculate them as a group ahead of time, and is in addition to the intimidation technique used on Kerry. The method is to get Congress to pass a resolution, which has no legal effect, or even a law, as Rand Paul is trying to do, that gets them to commit to a particular position on an issue so that when a similar issue comes up again, it will be harder or impossible for the member of Congress to take a position different from the resolution he voted for before. That is why you have seen resolutions (not laws) passed about Iraq and Iran so that when it comes time to push for a law authorizing military action, Congress is more likely to go along with it.

Rand Paul wants very much to be president, but he is letting himself be set up to be boxed in on issues. And it is being done in an even more subtle way than the set up was done to LA Clippers basketball team owner Donald Sterling. Rand Paul is going to learn the hard way if he tries to shift in the future from that language somebody put in the Stand With Israel Act of 2014 he has introduced in the Senate.

What was done to Donald Sterling and John Kerry will be done to him.

Ryan

Maybe Kerry should have used the expression "segregationist state"? Too bad, it would have been funny to hear Kristol's reaction to that.

Ryan

A donation to (A)IPAC would be in order and certainly not refused.

crf

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/israeli-president-says-netanyahu-nixed-peace-deal-with-abbas/article18548826/

Peres says a peace deal was reached in secret, which included resolving the issues of Settlements and Right of Return, but was vetoed by Netanyahu. This news, depending on how it's spun by the US Media, could be very damaging for US-Israel relations.

This may also clarifies the Israeli abstention on the vote condemning Russia's Crimea annexation. It leaves Netanyahu the diplomatic justification for making something similar happen in the west bank, and perhaps sooner than we think.

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