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04 March 2014

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William R. Cumming

I cannot state how accurate this comment rings to me!

William R. Cumming

Germany is the country of choice for relocation by Russians and Ukrainians. After all many of them lived or grew up in East Germany!

Medicine Man

Babak -- I actually don't think the Greens in Iran were agitators bankrolled by foreign governments. It doesn't prove anything but I remember the neocons and their ilk weren't all on the same page regarding the protestors in Iran. Some touted them as an excuse to meddle, others clearly saw them as an inconvenient break in their "Iranians are evil"-narrative; they were not strong enough to effect the regime change the neos wanted, nor silent enough for their existence to be denied.

kao_hsien_chih

Somehow, I would not be surprised if that is the case. But the truth is that a lot of mobilization techniques that NED types use are actually old tricks that have been used by savvy machine politicians for generations, both in US and elsewhere. If similar techniques are being used by mobilizers of the Tea Party or Occupy movements, it would not necessarily be because they were trained/influenced by NED...

In a way, this sort of explains why Thaksin's party in Thailand has not been as vulnerable to protests as others have been: Thaksin is himself a savvy machine politician and his party operates in a manner very much like NED-organized protesters...

William R. Cumming

Every bit of land on the Eurasian Continent west of the Ural Mountains!

rjj

Did you notice how Ashton's voice thins out when she replies to his statement then she does what seems to be a side step.

I know what it means when I do that. Wonder what it means that she did that.

steve g

Fred

During the Occupy movement here in Mpls the
police raided some of the leaders houses.
Found "evidence" they were going to try some
overt violent methods. Turns out the person
who influenced this group was a police plant
according to those arrested. He may have been
trained by.... As usual the MSM dropped this
off the radar like all such stories.

David Habakkuk

All,

The ‘Telegraph’ has picked up the report of the conversation between the Estonian Foreign Minister and Baroness Ashton. Apparently, the doctor he quoted has claimed that she did not tell him what he said she did:

‘Olga Bogomolets said she had not told Mr Paet that policemen and protesters had been killed in the same manner.

‘“Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people,” she told The Telegraph. “I have no access to those people.”

‘But she said she had asked for a full forensic criminal investigation into the deaths that occurred in the Maidan. “No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons. I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything.

‘“I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms.

‘“Our nation has to ask the question who were the killers, who asked them to come to Ukraine. We need good answers on the basis of expertise.”

‘Mr Paet's assertion that an opposition figure was behind the Maidan massacre was not one she could share.

‘“I think you can only say something like this on the basis of fact,” she said. “Its not correct and its not good to do this. It should be based on fact.”

‘She said the new government in Kiev had assured her a criminal investigation had begun but that she had not direct contact with it so far.

‘“They told me they have begun a criminal process and if they say that I believe them. The police have not given me any information on it.”’

(See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10677370/Ukraine-Russia-crisis-live.html )

The situation now seems completely clear. If they have confidence in the claims they have made, Obama, Kerry, the ‘Bullingdon Boy’, Anne Applebaum, the ‘Telegraph’, and indeed ‘Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and All’, will now energetically campaign for a full and impartial investigation into the evidence about the sniper killings.

If they do, we will await the results. If they do not, we will be entitled to draw the conclusion that they are fools, knaves, or most probably both.

robt willmann

The Estonian ministry of foreign affairs on its website says that the recording of the conversation is authentic between Urmas Paet and the EU "High" representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton, which revealed that some people from the "new coalition" got snipers to murder people on both sides of the political dispute to inflame it, and that it was not Yanukovich who did so.

http://www.vm.ee/?q=en/node/19353

Mr. Paet is to hold a press conference today about it. Is CNN going to cover it live? (Sarcasm alert.)

In the conversation itself, after Mr. Paet makes the shocking statement, Catherine Ashton is blase about the whole thing--

"Ms. Ashton: I think we do want to investigate, I mean I didn't pick that up. That's interesting. Gosh."

Of course, she is not going to do any investigation, nor is Britain, Israel, the U.S., the "European Union", Bob Woodward, the 60 Minutes TV program, etc.

My Gosh, do you think that NSA Director Keith Alexander took time off from compiling an "on the fly" dossier of all U.S. persons and turned his attention to intercepting the communications of the "new coalition" who were plotting to get and use the snipers for these murders and the communications of the snipers themselves?

And CIA director John Brennan ... what did he know and when did he know it?

David Habakkuk

All,

In a Youtube piece posted on 20 February, Oleg Bogomolets was captioned as ‘Medical Coordinator for Opposition Movement’, and appeared to suggest that she treated Berkut people.

(See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5eiZERkECI )

Babak Makkinejad

Hmmm.

So a Carpathian Eastern Orthodox farmer earnestly celebrating Easter and the gay-pride participant in San Franciscan are part of the same Civilization and Culture?

Put differently, Yekaterinburg is congruent with St. Louis in culture and custom?

Well if you believe that, I have a bridge in Dasht-e Lute that I am trying to sell.

fanto

maybe he was referring to the Tuskeege incident and to the cancer inoculations to people in jails?

Babak Makkinejad

Have you looked at the Financial Times editorial page today and the comments?

Thomas

TTG,

"I thought I would die in an explosive laden flaming T-64 as I crashed it into Lenin's Tomb as the last act in the last war."

You do in RED DAWN 300, coming to a theater near you Summer 2015.

seydlitz89

Sir, my experience had to do with US overt Humint collection. Our collection provided the spur to the US government to get involved in the former Yugoslavia, a case I would argue of strategic intelligence collection actually causing strategic effect (adequately) which doesn't happen very often. In other words the reporting promoted the political will to action while those actual activities which followed were something different, so what we did was simply the "prequel".

rjj

Paet by his indiscretion has in effect thrown Bogomolets under the bus.

Haralambos

This is up on the NYTimes site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/what-putin-really-wants.html?hp&rref=opinion

This is the first opinion I have read looking at this from "the other side." That said, I have not been spending hours a day on this issue. This is the source of the opinion: www.cast.ru
Does anyone here know more about this than is on their website?

JohnH

NED is affiliated with the Democratic Party. The National Republican Institute is affiliated with the Republican Party. The Chamber of Commerce has a similar organization as does the AFL-CIO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy

Regime change is a non-partisan effort, funded by Congress.

Undoubtedly, what they learn from their foreign adventures gets applied domestically.

euclidcreek

One thought came to mind reading this article: Pussy Riot and the super-sized publicity awarded by the NYT and MSM around the world fit NED's earlier goals to "support dissidents, circulate subversive literature". Looks to me that Pussy Riot and its past members were simply useful for opinion formation in generation X/hipsters from San Francisco to Brooklyn. Shallow and nihilistic "musicians" oppressed by a reactionary government, same story, over and over. Just sayin'

DH

David, to be clear, I should have appended a note saying I thought the piece was propaganda. I read the Ioffe piece yesterday, and then went to the video, only to see a calm, polite Putin. I had to appreciate his audacity saying anyone can buy the uniforms seen in the Crimea.

It's all especially annoying that Merkel's clarification of what she actually said appeared in Die Welt the day before the Ioffe article.

Thanks for the links.

Babak Makkinejad

All:

More on Ukraine

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/putin-triumphs-ukraine-10009

The Twisted Genius

David Habakkuk,

You asked if I thought Putin was right to assert that "the Maidan protests had at their centre groups given a very thorough training in Lithuania and Poland." I think there might be some truth in that, but is more political hyperbole than fact. The groups of Pravy Sektor and Svoboda are fully capable of producing their own indigenous cadres of street fighters and probably have no shortage of compounds and camps in western Ukraine to conduct such training. Sure there were probably some "leadership seminars" and coordination meetings in Lithuania and Poland, but I think the biggest import from these countries was money to fund their activities, money mostly from Nuland's war chest. Earlier released emails from Klitschko to a Lithuanian government official were quite telling.

"Special thanks to all Lithuanian friends for financial assistance." (27 Nov 2013)

"Your colleague has arrived and started working with my team. He's a real pro and I think his services may be required even after the country is destabilized. I've also met your people from the Embassy. The information about Yanukovych's plans they handed me is very important for our common cause." (14 Dec 2013)

"I think we've paved the way for more radical escalation of the situation. Isn't it time to proceed with more decisive actions? I also want you to consider the possibility of increasing funding to pay for the services of our supporters." (9 Jan 2014)

Fred

kao_hsien_chih,

Yes, many mobilization tricks are tried and true. I refer, however, to the "unethical" Mr. Sale refers to above in the quotes from Robert Helvey." .... He said in an interview that his non-violent method “is not ethical. It is not pacifism. It is based on an analysis of power in dictatorship and how to break it by withdrawing the obedience of its citizens and the key institutions of society.”

What is the difference between breaking power within a dictatorship and within a democracy? Are these jacobins breaking the power of the citizens of the US by these actions?

fanto

Joe, in Germany the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung online (faz.net) has a front page article about that conversation with Ashton. Other german media (incl. TV) are silent.

readerOfTeaLeaves

CP:

Agree that, "IMO neoliberal economic theory is as much a cold war product as neoconservatism." Although I have the highest regard for Col Lang's view that this situation is not simply about economics, the neoliberal economic philosophy that led to post-Soviet looting surely plays into the dynamics.

Neoliberal economics underlies the 'logic' of tax havens and offshore. Hence, it is worth noting that
The Tax Justice Network has a recent post about how the psychology of offshoring is now affecting the situation in the Ukraine, including Putin's assessment of the West: i.e., we've become sycophants for Russian fortunes.

http://www.taxjustice.net/2014/03/03/russia-longer-fears-west-offshore-stupid/

As evidence: I don't know whether you spotted it, but the Guardian has a story about Cameron's administration seeking to protect The City of London (i.e., home base of tax havens, offshoring, and finance) against hostilities in the Ukraine. Putin and the Russians ought to be having a hearty chuckle over that one -- Cameron's acting to protect the rights of London Finance to continue servicing Russian oligarchs and their fortunes.

An excellent history of the 'mathification' that lent influence to neoliberal economics can be found in Beinhocker's "The Origin of Wealth", if you are interested. Intriguingly - but no big surprise - that history includes people with autistic tendencies.

Neoliberalism's offshoring has large implications: would Russian deposits in US-related banks in the Caymans, British Virgin Islands, Jerseys, etc, etc, be affected if Putin decides that a response to US sanctions would be to stop paying on Russian loans? Quite possibly.

With respect to Argentina, it is worth noting that Pope Francis - former Archbishop of Buenos Aires -saw that economic nightmare Up Close and Personal. It is no accident that he is an articulate voice pushing back against neoliberal economics; and he is only one of many voices articulating global disgust with neoliberal economics. Without that economic system, it is hard to envision how neoconservatism can remain intact and dominant.

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