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28 February 2014

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scott s.

VV:

In 1914 didn't Austria-Hungary attack Russia over Western Ukraine, with the result that Russia took control of Western Ukraine?

kassandra

Scanning the comments here, it is amazing that the USA ever stood up to King George,
And I am amazed at the callous treatment of the Crimean Tatars here. The Crimean Tatars are the indigenous people of the Crimea. They were the majority population there until the Russians conquered the area and began deporting them. Stalin finished the deportations in 1944. Many of the Crimean Tatars perished during the deportations. Some have begun to return to their ancestral homelands now and stand firmly with the Ukranians. The Russians in the Crimea are mostly recent arrivals, most not having been there more than two generations, They are colonists.

But of course, in the eyes of the Americans the Crimean Tatars are Muslim, and by definition, evil.

Further, the Ukranians all well remember the Holodomor, when close to six million Ukranians starved to death in an engineered famine perpetrated by Soviet Russia, to force them onto the Kolhozes. The man in charge wasLazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich.

kassandra

Why is there a picture of Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov illustrating a statement by Yanukovich?

Thomas

Babak,

Martin Dempsey is the public figure representing that sane professionals exist in Uncle Samuel's government.

It is the Tyranna wannabes and Imperators in waiting that are putting the republic under a severe stress test. Any Praetorian Guard wishing to enforce the neo-Imperium is going to have an armed populace disagreeing.

The bread and circus of plebs is what you see presented by MSM with full editorial control.

turcopolier

kassandra

Because it pleases me. Russia is the major actor in this, not the Ukrainians. As for George III he did not possess an ICBM force adequate for the purpose of ending civilization in North America. The Ukraine is nothing to us. pl

Babak Makkinejad

My apologies; I confused the conquest of Kazan with that of Crimea.

Please disregard my earlier comments - I was wrong.

Babak Makkinejad

I thought Tartars invaded at the time of the Mongols and ruled over the Slavic population.

If I recall correctly, they raided Ukraine for slaves.

kao_hsien_chih

I'd read that one reason Khrushchev lost power was that other Soviet leaders he gave in before force with regards to Cuban missiles.

I wonder if our own leaders are wise enough to make that same "mistake" over Ukraine. I am not especially hopeful.

turcopolier

All

Someone who calls himself "Dr. K" wrote to tell me that the brain damaged senior officers that I mocked would be responsible for any war with Russia. I imagine that he is a similarly addled pensioner. He lives in Pompano Beach, Florida. I deleted his comment as ridiculous. If there were to be war with Russia it would be decided on by the civilian/political complex. pl

r whitman

Does anybody have an idea of the present state and intentions of the Ukrainian Military?? Are they an effective fighting force? Leadership? Would they fight the Russians if ordered to by the clowns in Kiev?

Richard Armstrong

Thomas - USNORTHCOM is already in place and is tasked with responding to threats to the Republic arising in North America. Their website says they are already conducting intelligence operations now. I wonder why they are conducting those ops against Americans?

Dr. K

AustroHungary attacked Serbia. Russia attacked AH.

Medicine Man

Wow, if this is true then Russians in Crimea started organizing just in time.

VietnamVet

Scott

“The Guns of August” seemed arcane when I read it in the 1960’s but is completely current today. The Balkans are again the cradle of war. The major religions and the great empires, Russian, Ottoman and Austria-Hungary, abutted each other there. They waxed and waned and it was even breathing room for Germany for a while. Western Ukrainians are cousins to the Poles but were part of the Austria-Hungary Empire instead of Czarist Russia until merged into the USSR in 1922. Western Ukrainians want what the Poles have for better or worse.

In 1914 Czarist Russia supported their fellow Orthodox Christians in Serbia which had freed itself earlier from Muslim Ottoman control when attacked by the Catholic Austria Hungary Empire in 1914 due to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. The rest is history except it keeps coming around.

NATO currently has a peacekeeping force (KFOR) in Muslim Kosovo (Southern Serbia). If mankind survives and the USA doesn’t implode into bankruptcy, the WUFOR will be a NATO-led international peacekeeping force responsible for establishing a secure environment in Western Ukraine, the province of Galicia in the old Austria Hungary Empire. If NATO falls apart no one can know what will happen but the cultures may be close enough that Western Ukraine could merge with Poland for security against outsiders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg

kao_hsien_chih

I would hardly think the territorial and political objectives are "far reaching" or indeed particular to Putin. No self-respecting Russian leader could leave the present development unaddressed. Unless Russia is to reduce itself to a third rate power, they will do something, indeed have to do something, no matter who is at their helm. I do expect that whatever they will do will be "legal" (or, at least in response to overtly illegal even if self righteous behavior by their adversaries) as the Russians (through most of their history) have been quite legalistic in most of their foreign policy endeavors (especially when there are big stakes involved).

Dr. K

I salute you sir for being such a resolute gatekeeper. I must have touched a nerve though that you censor yet comment.

fanto

Tatars are Muslim but not in the Wahhabi style, they stress good education; Rinat Achmetov,the oligarch who supported at one point Yanukovich, is a Tatar. He spent a lot of money to improve the infrastructure in Donezk, East Ukraine, and paid above-average wages to the labor.(info from Peter Scholl - Latour's "Russland im Zangengriff" 2006).

The Twisted Genius

Others here have pointed out two pieces of information that together may shed light on how the war in the shadows is playing out in Crimea. We are by now all familiar with the Saker. His reported on the flight of a A320 Airbus from Turkey towards Crimea the night the mysterious armed men arrived at Simferopol and Belbek. It appears the plane returned to Turkey rather than attempt landing amidst the mysterious armed men. Was this a planeload of Maidan activists and weapons as the Saker suggests?

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/what-really-happened-overnight-in-crimea.html

Someone here also pointed out a report that Anonymous Ukraine hackers obtained some incriminating Maidan emails. In one of these emails, Andrei Tarasenko, the deputy head of the Stepan Bandera trident tells the Deputy Chairman of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People that he is prepared to provide weapons and other tools to foment violence in Crimea to the Tartars with the help of his Turkish friends. Well, put these two reports together and, as my dear old former mentor, Master Sergeant Albert H. Rivers, often exclaimed, "The shit's on, good buddy!"

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/what-really-happened-overnight-in-crimea.html

The Saker also surmised that the mysterious armed men at Simferopol were GRU Spetznaz based on their polite and low profile attitude towards bystanders. It seems that Saker encountered this same attitude when he encountered GRU Spetznaz in Moscow years ago. He may be right. If Anonymous hackers got those emails, the SVR have that information and undoubtedly much more. Would Russia commit Spetznaz troops to stop the infiltration of weapons and Stepan Bandera hooligans to the Tartars in Crimea? Quite possibly. I still think they were local militia, possibly former Berkut commandos, under the direction of Spetznaz operatives. We'll never know for sure. That's war in the shadows.

different clue

I think I remember reading long ago that after Kaganovich, Yagoda and other such carried out the assignments Stalin gave them . . . that he had Beria have them all killed. They probably weren't expecting that.
Engineered Famine appears to be a feature of Marxist governance in at least some places. China had the Great Leap Forward Famine under Mao,
and Ethiopia had its big famine under the Dergue. The little I have read indicates the Dergue Famine was also engineered to take advantage of a concurrent drought which provided some "natural cover" to the further faminization policies the Dergue carried out in provinces suspected of insufficient loyalty.

Dubhaltach

Mr Habbakauk:

"I have checked, and it appears that the NATO Secretary General – Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who is apparently Danish – did actually say what the Russian Foreign Ministry said he did. At this time of all times, he was implying that if the Russians relinquished the Crimea to Ukraine, they were liable to end up with Sevastopol as a NATO base."

A link, or a description of source would be very nice.

TIA

Dubhaltach

Charles I

The email smacks of too good to be true for the Russians, has Anonymous posted it beyond VOR? That the Tatars would be anti-Russian and in for all manner of neutralization in the circumstances - the Russian and mystery depolyments being parts of a well co-ordinated dynamic response to the revolution seems as reasonable as not IMHO.

Charles I

You nailed it before, delusional thinking. Fortunately we've been outmaneuvered by all sides and I trust the Senate has no stomach for real warfare.

Charles I

Which still leaves them part of Russia's near abroad, whatever is the west exactly to do that Ms. Nuland et al haven't, er, accomplished?

Charles I

This is getting hysterical, whatever was it like during the Hungarian Revolution and the invasion of Czechoslovakia?

William R. Cumming

Some maps:

BBC(28 February 2014).BBC:Ukraine crisis in maps. Retrieved from: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26387353

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