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10 February 2014

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b

"Extremist Jewish settlers have been carrying out acts of vandalism in recent years, in retaliation for Palestinian attacks ..."

A straight lie in defense of the vandals. They do not need any reason to attack Palestinians other then those being Palestinians.

Matthew

Col: notice that Settler violence is never termed "terrorism".

different clue

I had read that the "wildcat" settlers' own spokesfolk had said they are doing it in "retaliation" for Israeli government/army efforts to differentiate the "wildcat" settlements from the "government sponsored" settlements and shut down the "wildcat" settlements.
Successful suppression of the settler terrorists and vandalists would inspire much of the revisionist-minded citizenry all over Israel to hold huge riots. Such riots might be used as diversion and cover by harder revisionists to carry out bombings, arsons, and maybe assassinations here and there within Israel Proper. If the non-revionists fought back, I wonder if the revisionists would escalate to Civil War. I wonder if the Governators are so afraid of Civil War that they will submit to full revisionist rule and upgrade the "wildcat" settlements to "government sponsored" in order to avoid the Civil War which the Revisionists are happy to have.
Perhaps that fear inhibited the Israeli Government from digging up all the roots and background of the Rabin assassination?

Norbert M Salamon

Goliath is full utter contempt of Israelis towards Palestinians and Arabs. I wonder if any of the high Officials of Obama Administration even paged through this volume, never mind reading this depressing opus.

David Habakkuk

All,

The extent to which the Israelis have ‘delegitimised’ themselves in the eyes of mainstream British opinion was illustrated in a Commons debate on the ‘humanitarian situation’ in Gaza 5 February. According to the summary by the ‘Times of Israel’ blogger Marc Goldberg:

‘There was a debate in the British Parliament on Wednesday during which Members of Parliament (MPs) took turns to attack Israel. There was a literal barrage of filth heaped upon the Jewish state by MPs from Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats. It must be said that the chair of Conservative Friends of Israel, James Clappison MP was trying to make Israel’s case, though no one was interested in listening.’

(See http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/british-parliament-murders-israel/ )

As Goldberg is incapable of imagining any other reason for the widespread revulsion against Israeli policy in Gaza than anti-Semitism, it is hardly surprising that he described Sir Gerald Kaufman, one of the most vociferous British critics of that policy, as ‘the well known self hating Jew’.

In his speech, Kaufman recalled how the South African judge, Richard Goldstone, was ‘harassed by Jewish organisations’ as a result of the report to the UN he produced following ‘Operation Cast Lead.’

At the end of a meeting with Goldstone in New York, Kaufman recalled, his wife said to him that it was ‘good to meet another self-hating Jew.’

Matthew

DH: The earthquake is coming. Money and threats only work for so long, and support bought by money and threats melts away in the sunshine of knowledge. That is happening in the Mother of Parliaments. It is happening to the Narrative. It happening to support from younger Jews in America and England.

Israel is even losing the Davos Denizens like the Friedman Unit. Can you imagine even five years ago that Tom Friedman would write a piece remotely sympathetic to BDS?

confusedponderer

The really interesting question is how large a bloc the "wildcat" settlers' and their ideological supporters actually represent.

There is probably a critical mass after which any crackdown by authorities would be self-destructive for Israel and thus politically unfeasable.

Judging by what I have read about settler vandalism against Palestinian property and their hooliganism in general, they are probably the proverbial bad neighbour, to make matters worse, overtly hostile bad neighbours armed to the teeth, often with army protection.

David Habakkuk

Matthew,

‘Money and threats only work for so long, and support bought by money and threats melts away in the sunshine of knowledge.’

There is a good deal in this. However, I am somewhat of an ideological mongrel, and as I grow older, the Tory cynic strand gets stronger.

In the UK, a range of factors are at play. One is, without doubt, a genuine revulsion at the brutalism of current Israeli governments and Israeli society.

This is however mixed in with other elements.

1. For decades, the conventional wisdom was that the Israelis were genuinely interested in a settlement with the Palestinians, but were inhibited by an – understandable – need for reassurance. A range of recent developments – including the fact that the extraordinary concessions offered by Abbas were rejected, and the cheeking of Obama by Netanyahu over the settlements, have done for this. People think they have been sold a pup, taken for Charlies.

2. This, in itself, has done lethal damage to the ‘cult of the Holocaust’, which as Babak Makkinejad has repeatedly and accurately pointed out, has been fundamental to British attitudes towards Israel.

3. Compounding the problem, from the Israelis point of view, is the fact that the ‘cult of the Holocaust’ has in Britain been intimately involved with the cult of the Second World War. It has become the part of our history in which we can feel comfortable, and emancipated from ambiguity and guilt. Accordingly the discovery that the Israelis and their Western fellow-travellers do not really make radical distinctions between ‘goyim’ has come as a wake-up-call.

There are many more underlying complexities to the evolution of attitudes that has been going on – but perhaps these will do for a start!

different clue

I've never been there. I only know what I read. I believe I've read that many of the terrorist vandals themselves are from the "government sponsored" settlements. I think there are about a half million illegal settlers in the Golan Heights, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank. Most of them were lured there by tremendous subsidies and houses way better than what they could have afforded within Lesser Israel. They could be lured back into Lesser Israel with equally big subsidies and houses to make way for a 2SS peace. If they don't get promised that, they will obstruct and object. The lesser fraction ( maybe 150,000?) are committed and would get violent in principle if the wildcat settlements were really shut down because they would think that would indicate a trend in Israeli Government leading to targetting them for removal next. Maybe half a million of their die-hardest supporters in Israel would resort to immediate violence all over Israel on the settlers' immediate behalf?

Was the great majority of Israelis always potential revisionists? Have they just gotten in touch with their Inner Revisionist? Or were they carefully revisionised by planned guidance and fear-creation/ fear-management?

Rabin had the military credibility within Israeli society to pursue a 2SS peace and bring the Israeli majority along with him. Revisionists
knew that and feared the death of their dream. Perhaps they decided the death of Rabin would keep their dream alive? " Give war a chance. Keep despair alive. Keep despair alive!" . . . to paraphrase Jesse Jackson. I read an interesting blogpost once purporting to show complicity and planning/assistance from elements within Shin Bet to lead Amir to commit the murder and to "to strip away" Rabin's personal security to make sure Amir could succeed. If the statements of fact presented as fact by the blogpost are really factual, then perhaps this blogpost deserves thinking about. And if this blogpost was really a pretty good analysis of the situation, then the Revionists are just as dug into Israeli Government and society as the AKPists are dug into Turkish Government and society, and would need just as much violence (or even more violence) to remove from government and influence. And Israel does not even have a Gulenist Movement ready and waiting to tear down the Settlerist Revisionist players for strictly power-struggle reasons. Here is the link.
http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/07/violent-bear-it-away.html

I wonder what Professor Amatzia Baram thinks about all this.

Fred

b,

In addition it looks like the conquest continues.

http://news.yahoo.com/israelis-protest-kerry-demand-more-settlements-192954669.html

harry

Pet-peeve. It was not a literal barrage of filth, whatever that means. It was a metaphorical barrage of filth. I know you were quoting but i cant bear the misuse of "literal".

confusedponderer

I read this morning that at a cabinet meeting the Israeli justice minister let the cabinet choose whether price tag attacks are mere extremism or terorism.

Terrorism would carry a criminal penalty of up to 20 years. Extremist activity (think: Hamas linked charities) doesn't carry such a sanction. In both cases asset confiscation is a possible sanction.

The cabinet, led by the right wingers, decided that price tag attacks are just extremist activity.

So when a Palestinian vandalises an Israeli fence it is terrorism, for which he can be shot with impunity.

Even though the subtle difference will be lost on the palestinians, when a settler vandalises a Palestinian's field, say he chops down olive tres (i.e. destroys a livelihood), that's extremist activity.

He musst not be shot, and when his actions invoke a predictable angry response, he will likely be protected by the IDF from the probably deserved consequences of his actions.

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