« Mandela dead but de Klerk yet lives. | Main | The "Death Ship" and Chaplain McDonnell »

05 December 2013

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

William R. Cumming

And this it will always be?

confusedponderer

I wonder who'll be Blücher here.

blowback

These are unilateral sanctions - while American businesses are required to abide by them by law, businesses from other countries only have to abide by them if either they have business interests in the United States or their own national governments decide to enforce them. I would hope the governments of most other countries will tell the US Congress where they can put these sanctions and that it's somewhere quite painful. I also hope this would be followed by the leaders of US businesses running squealing to Congress demanding that they be given a chance to get their snouts in the Iranian trough.
I wouldn't say this was AIPAC's Waterloo, more its Retreat from Moscow to use a Napoleonic analogy.

Matthew

Obama could derail the Congress simply by informing the EU that he will respect their decision to unilaterally lift EU sanctions against Iran.

oofda

Or maybe Trafalgar vice Waterloo?

Bill H

Or by vetoing the bill.

tv

Interesting,
The dislike (hatred) of Israel is so strong that some people are applauding this "negotiation"
\\\\ by renowned sellour artists like John Kerry and the State Dept,
And, the icing on the cake: send a liberal ex-social worker, named Wendy, to negotiate with Iran.

After all, the Iranians are really good people at heart.
They just seized our embassy, killed Americans and massively supported terrorism because...they had bad childhoods, or something.

So, let them build nuclear weapons and then the rest of the region can arm themselves accordingly..
Now, THAT'S a policy:t
Lots of nuclear weapons in the hands of assholes.

North

Too much tv, Mr tv-set. Dislike and hatred are quite different things to start with and giving "hatred" as synonym for "dislike" is too dumb as a emotional trigger.
I hope the quality of your post is indicative for the average level of intellectual impotence of the people who's words you are repeating here. What is to be liked in neo-Nazi, apartheid regime with few hundred nuclear warheads, behaving like barbarian?

Fred

Israel attacked the USS Liberty in international waters. Isreal facilitated transferring material vital to US national security to the USSR - look up Jonathan Pollard. Nuclear weapons - just how did Israel get thiers? But hey, Israel's a great country.

Iran seized our embassy in 1979. We fought two wars against Britain. Britain burned Washington and plenty of other towns. Are they perpetual enemies or allies? No. Neither are the Iranians.

kao_hsien_chih

You don't negotiate with "good people." We wouldn't be negotiating with the Iranians if we thought they were "good people."

Rd.

tv said...

After all, the Iranians are really good people at heart.”

Yes, all one needs to remember is, it was the Iranians who saved the 'collective' jewish people in Babylon. And as a result many of them who had the right sense remained in Iran for more than 2500 years. And today they maintain the largest community of jewish people in the MNE outside of israel.


“Lots of nuclear weapons in the hands of assholes. “

We know who the declared NW states are and we know israel is the ONLY nw state in the ME. Thank you for stating the obvious fact.

Castellio

I haven't a clue what tv is trying to say.

But working from his last line, I think he is suggesting that we ban all nuclear weapons in the Middle East.

I support that.

Peter Hug

Setting aside completely the question of the sanctions themselves, Obama could quite legitimately veto this because it infringes on the President's prerogative to conduct foreign policy.

If this passes and he DOES veto it, I certainly hope that is the reason he gives.

Peter Hug

Wow. I guess I don't really know where to begin. But I will try.

(i) The considered opinion of the US Intelligence community (and the Israeli one as well) is that the Iranians do NOT currently have a nuclear weapons program.

(ii) Parts of the rest of the region have ALREADY armed themselves accordingly: Israel (not a signatory to the NPT, although Iran is) clearly has several hundred nuclear warheads that have been weaponized and attached to ballistic missiles that at the very least can reach all of Europe; Saudi Arabia may have nuclear weapons that they bought from Pakistan.

(iii) Iranians (even including their politicians) are very similar to people all over the world, in that they will act rationally in what they perceive to be in their self-interest. This means that they will sometimes do awful things, and sometimes act against American interests. This is also the case with every other country in the world, and is to be expected. The way to stop this is not by destroying them, it's by finding a path that addresses both of our critical security needs. (Note that I limit this to the critical security needs of the US and Iran.)

(iv) WTF - I have no idea what you mean by this: "And, the icing on the cake: send a liberal ex-social worker, named Wendy, to negotiate with Iran." but who gives a flying fuck in a rolling donut what the political tendencies (and do remember that the current Administration is Democratic and elected twice), the first name, or the previous employment history are of whoever we send. Seriously, this comment really solidifies your utter cluelessness and (non)hidden agenda.

Finally - dislike or not of Israel has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any discussion or negotiation the United States may be having with Iran. Israel is (last I heard) a sovereign nation all by itself, with interests and policies that are determined by its citizens as expressed by duly elected Israeli governments. Sometimes those will be in alignment with those of the US, and sometimes not.

OUR administration's job is to represent and advance the interests of the United States and absolutely no one else. If this negotiation does that, they are completely doing their job, even if (and it won't) this would mean the inevitable destruction of Israel. They work for the US, NOT for anyone else.

Matthew

Many in Congress are trying to sabotage negotiations to force Obama into war. And will then claim that only he is responsible when it turns into a disaster.

CK

One negotiates with people all the time, their goodness or badness is determined by how well they live up to the deal they strike with us.
Anything else is soap opera drama.

Peter Hug

I think the last sentence of tv's post may be the only factual statement it contains.

And I would certainly support a nuclear-free ME. I expect that the Iranians would as well.

Amir

The Iranians are people who will be affected by sanctions but survive: "what doesn't kill one, make one stronger". I can only tell of personal experience of being a student at a time of Clinton sanctions: it certainly made life more difficult but helped you to focus instead of the neighboring princes. tv wake up and smell the future: The Love of your life is merely a copy of the ephemeral Soviet Union.

tv

ALL (and the gracious host):
Boy, talk about kicking a yellow jacket nest....
My intention, simple as it was, was to question the trustworthiness of ALL the parties in this negotiation.
And yes, nuclear weapons in the middle east are a really, really bad idea.
As for US "intelligence" not thinking that Iran is moving toward weapons: the same bunch that missed 9/11?
Yeah, I've got a lot of "faith" in their track record.

Andrew

Paging Capt. tv Titz, your hasbara cheque has cleared! And you should be nicer when speaking of the Israelis- "Lots of nuclear weapons in the hands of assholes." shame on you.

turcopolier

tv

that's true. they all missed it and that was shoddy work but Intelligence is far more are than science. That does not mean that better work cannot be done. pl

Charles I

We've made it to hate the sin, love the sinner, totally meaningless in international relations, unless you're interested in that kind of thing. At least you didn't rail against anti-semites or Persiaphiles. The hatred of Iran's behaviour by Israel seems so great that it has regularly threatened to attack it, without ruling out the use of nuclear weapons, for many years, whatever it does. It regularly insists other countries far away join in.

What do you propose "we" "let" "them" do? Or not do, and how so?


Thomas

Graywolf,

BS, The first sentence of your post was typical of snide comments over the years to those who don't bow to your Idol. Maybe Bibi was thinking of you in that You-tube sensation of his "America is Our bitch".

Iran is moving (actually achieved) towards breakout capacity though no further. Their negotiating now for their national economic interests such as stabilizing the currency and getting the South Pars project back up and running.

For US the goal is not to get dragged into a global conflagration for a Delirious Dreamer of Domination (your BFF Bibi).

As for the other negotiators not in Bibi's lil black book of bought bitches, the goal is effectiveness of international institutions for political resolutions and global economic stability with the ancillary benefits for their domestic interests.

By the way Timothy, how many of the hostages did Iran kill?

turcopolier

Charles I

Soldiers who fight you in wars are not made sinners by that and so your citation in Catholic teaching is meaningless. Also, revolutionary wars are not about international relations unless someone intervenes in a civil war as we did in VN and the French did in our war against the British. Nevertheless even in such cases of intervention there are limits to just behavior even towards the enemy. What I have been talking about here are those limits. Redemption is not possible for people who willfully continue to do violent things to non-combatants. pl

Alba Etie

Tv ,Graywolf, and or Thomas
If a foreign power had taken my family homestead in Central Texas by force - And that same foreign power had killed one third of my family , sent to a Gulag another third of my family , & kept me and the remaining third of my family in a refugee ghetto hell hole with no prospects for any better future somewhere in East Texas- I would most decidedly be looking for help wherever I could get it to get back my surviving family and our homestead. Moreover if there was a paramilitary of another regional power that was training me to fight the occupiers of my family homestead , plus trying to help my remaining family members to have adequate shelter, food & employment - damn skipping I would be supportive of that helpful regional power. Then if there was a SuperPower - who against all fairness , equity & even self interest supported fully & without remorse the occupier of my family homestead, the continual murdering of my remaining family etc. - there is no question that Superpower I would consider my enemy . This is just common sense Thomas ... So yeah I am very glad These United States has started to push back against AIAPC and others in the American Likud .

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

October 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Blog powered by Typepad