« South Sudan Another Failure of U S Foreign Policy--Foresman | Main | Open Thread - 28 December 2013 »

27 December 2013

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

r whitman

The Gulen organization runs an extensive network of charter schools in the Houston area called "Harmony Schools". The are very well thought of especially in the middle eastern immigrant community. There is a substantial waiting list for admission. They emphasize math and science.

Bandolero

I don't understand why oil for gold trade with Iran is called "illegal" here. AFAIK that's neither in Turkey nor in Russia illegal. All what it does is that it doesn't cpmply with unilateral US sanctions against Iran which were pressed for by the Israel lobby.

As that business is not illegal for the parties involved, I can't see why Russian prosecutors should tip off Turkish prosecutors about that. Russia has absolutely no interest in weakening Iran.

Also, I think, the idea that it's a ploy of Rouhani & Rafsanjani against the guys of Ahmadinejad, is utter nonsense. There is absolutely no need for such a maneuver in Iran. Rouhani is Khamenei's trustee, Khamenei approved Rouhani and his foreign policy, and Khamenei is the leader of Ahmadinejad, so Ahmadinejad and his factions will do with whatever Khamenei directs them to do.

Also, for any interested follower, it was clear since years that corruption is also existent in the AKP up to the highest echolons. It's not new. So the question is why it is brought up now?

My speculation: The things happening could be seen as an extension of Israel/Iran- tensions. I think it's much more likely that Erdogan is right that the Gülenists were set in motion now by US zionist guys running the "green belt project" - which is the secret behind Gülens strength. Their motivation seems to be to me that they don't like that Erdogan and his guys are on good terms with Iran (eg: oil for gold), Russia (eg: South Stream, SCO comments) and China (eg: FD 2000), but on quite bad terms with Israel. So, I think, the allegation that the oil-for-gold-"lead" came from Russia I think is a hasbara cover up for that it really came from the axis of zionism.

different clue

I see a couple of things within the post itself which make it plausible to think that "the Russians diddit".

Harper informs us that this could weaken the RevGuards and Ahmedinejad's supporters, thereby strengthening Rouhani, Rafsanjani, and others who wish to pursue negotiations. Russia would like to see a fair agreement between Iran and US/Europe to remove that source of tension and because Russia could do more bussiness with a sanctions-free Iran. Also, if this strengthens Gullen and Gul against Erdogan, this would erode support for Turkish aid to the jihadists and strengthen Turkish support for cancelling that aid. As committed as Putin is to keeping the Assad-Baath government in power, Putin may be very annoyed by Erdogan's strong support for the jihadists. One way to weaken or cancel that support would be to reveal something which could lead to Erdogan's weakening or removal.

Ishmael Zechariah

SST Community, Colonel Lang,
I have been watching the current show in Turkish politics with great enjoyment. If these rats and their amen corner drown under the filth they have been generating, it will be poetic justice-a commodity very hard to find in today’s Turkey.
Initially the tayyip regime was hailed by the zionist-neocon circles as the emergence of a new "democratic Turkey". Those interested can look up the writings of henri barkey , the so-called middle-east expert, from those days. He was welcoming the tayyipists as true representatives of democracy. Once the islamist movements took over the state they targeted the TSK (Turkish Armed Forces). TSK was the target of the zonists, the leftists, the islamists and the kurds. A very interesting alliance. The Ergenekon farce, referred above by Harper, was executed mainly by the gulen "nurcu" movement. In this “trial” the evidence was cooked: there were secret witnesses; the incriminating computer records were patently and obviously false: they had been generated with software unavailable at the time of the “coup planning” (http://balyozdavasivegercekler.com/2012/10/04/dani-rodrik-did-microsoft-steal-its-fonts-from-the-turkish-army/ ) ; the weaponry supposedly buried for use in the coup-and dug up with great fanfare by the regime apparatus- could not take over a well-defended chicken coop, but no matter. “democracy” was on the march. tayyip and his regime was lauded in most media outlets. Even in this group there were those who hailed the Ergenekon verdicts, one of the biggest travesties of “justice”, as "democracy in action". I could not decide if these were well meaning, but delusional and ignorant, fools or psy-ops operatives. Maybe both.
Here are a bunch of links about the nurcu movement:
http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_4_fethullah-gulen.html
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/06/07/new-york-times%E2%80%99-expose-imam-gulen%E2%80%99s-charter-schools/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/world/middleeast/turkey-feels-sway-of-fethullah-gulen-a-reclusive-cleric.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2011/01/islamic_group_is_cia_front_ex-.html
The Gezi protests started the beginning of the end for tayyip and co. The current “falling out of thieves during partitioning of the loot” is part two of the drama. Before the third part a bunch of these humanoids will arrive in the USA -they have been buying property and transferring money. Some have already sent their families over. I wonder if they expect to enjoy their gains in peace.
The next few years promise to be interesting.
Ishmael Zechariah

JohnH

A couple years ago I met a young Turkish women, who didn't like Erdogan, something that interested me, because it ran counter to the prevalent narrative lionizing him. The reason? In his short tenure as prime minister, he had become Turkey's richest man. I have no validation of her assertion. However, given politics in general, and Mediterranean politics in particular, it certainly sounds plausible.

Now maybe we know how he makes his money...

Amir

Thought of an amateur: Iran-contra Turkish style or a payback for Erdogan's support for the Syrian Al-Qaeda.

confusedponderer

What are the causes of friction between Erdogan and Gulen i.e. what are the ideological and political differences between the two?

eakens

Given Turkey's position and involvement in the Syria affair, and the fact that Erdogan was almost out on the street over the Gezi Park affair, one could see the Russians being behind this.

If that is the case, then the real scandal will be uncovering of bribes which lead Turkey to take the position it took on Syria.

turcopolier

CP

Subject to being "sorted out" by someone who actually knows, I would say that my impression is that the Gulen movement is largely Sufi in inspiration and focused on self improvement. It seeks a modern evolution of Islam and is enthusiastically supportive of western style education. Erdogan's party is essentially salifism in business suits. That is why he wants to support the salafist AQ related fighters in Syria. There was bound to be a falling out between Gulen and the AKP. pl

Kunuri

Albayim, here is a wealth of links that may explain the path Erdogan took ever since this man became his chief and most trusted advisor. His name is Ibrahim Kalin, and his bio is in the link, as well as his co-scholors.

Edmund A.Welsh School of Foreign Service and Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding are the instutions he studied and worked in.

http://acmcu.georgetown.edu/119093.html

Founding Director of his University

http://explore.georgetown.edu/people/jle2/
and the complete list of the faculty

http://acmcu.georgetown.edu/faculty/

I got to thinking, from the list of names and scholarly research, an advisor as influential as this Ibrahim Kalin, and with his scholarly associations, how to explain Erdogan making the wrong decisions in every step of the way especially in the last few years? I am trying to find the research sited in his studies and of his faculty he studied with and under, and something is not right here.

Of all people, this man should be able to steer Erdogan in a course that does not alienate Turkey from the rest of the world and his people, and causing crisis after crises. I would really like an opinion as to what's going on here. Thank you.

 Ishmael Zechariah

Colonel Lang,

It might be said that gulen and his followers claim to be Sufis but they have amassed too much money and power to be Sufis.

Here is a good link: http://www.islamicpluralism.org/2008/islamic-sufism-in-response-to-the-contemporary

Here is yet one more link: http://www.19.org/2005/fethullah-gulen/

This one is truly tragicomic.

Perhaps gulen and his very obedient sheep may be compared to Smith and his Mormons in the early days of that movement.

Ishmael Zechariah

Bandolero

Ishmael Zechariah

Thank you for your insightful comment. What I wonder, though, when you said that the TSK was the target of a very interesting alliance of zonists, the leftists, the islamists and the kurds, why didn't you put the US into that list?

Isn't there a strong link between the rise of Islamism in a couple of countries, like Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, and Gülen & Erdogan in Turkey, and Brzezinsky's "green belt" project?

I found something like a link between the US "green belt" project in a Hurriyet article on the "Imam's army". Quote:

The content of “İmamın Ordusu” (The Imam’s Army), by journalist Ahmet Şık, has been the hottest topic in Turkey since his arrest on March 3. At the time of his arrest, he said to reporters, “Those who touch, burn.”

Mavioğlu wrote he had not read the book Şık sent him to ask his opinion about, but skimmed through it after he was arrested. Mavioğlu spoke to others who read the contents of the book on the alleged organization founded within Turkish Police by members of the Fethullah Gülen religious community.

The book begins with the “necessity relationship” between the state and Islam and how today’s Islamist movements were encouraged in the early ’80s by the military junta despite their secularist discourse. This was the “green belt” project of the U.S. to eliminate leftist movements. The book says the Gulen community was in harmony with the state not only during the Sept. 12, 1980 coup’s junta reign but during other critical times too. It is stated that though Gülen served seven months of prison time after the March 12, 1971 coup, his loyalty to the state was not changed.

Source:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=what-is-inside-the-8216hottest8217-book-in-turkey-2011-03-29

Wasn't it the US that was the driving force behind the rise of Gülen and the main force behind the AKP-Gülenist attack on the TSK? Gülen with his fellows looks to me like a guy fulfilling the green belt strategy for the US in the muslim belt of the central Asian 'stan countries up to western China, but also Sarajevo, and more recently, Syria. Don't you think that - advancing US interests in the region - is or was Gülen's main mission?

Interesing in that context I also find also the name Zekeriya Öz, who seems to have been in a leading position regarding the Ergenekon prosecution of the army, the prosecution of Ahmet Sik for his book "The Imam's army" and now the corruption charges against the Erdoganists.

All:

I'm very interested in good background info about Brzezinsky's green belt strategy and it's extensions and nuances. It seems to me important to understand history in a couple of muslim countries, but still much of a mystery.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/opinion/10809118_p.asp

If someone can provide some better links allowing a deeper understanding of that policy, I'ld be happy. I had once a link explaining much of that policy on an Iranian website, but it seems to have since disappeared - no wonder, it argued more or less, the US green belt policy was a main driving factor behind the Islamic revolution in Iran.

turcopolier

bandolero

"why didn't you put the US into that list? Isn't there a strong link between the rise of Islamism in a couple of countries, like Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, and Gülen & Erdogan in Turkey, and Brzezinsky's "green belt" project? " you really are absurd. it must be difficult living on beyond the end of the GDR. pl

Babak Makkinejad

Yes, I agree with you: "Gulen and very obedient sheep" - not for them would be "Asking Questions" and dealing with Euro-American Modernity using their minds.

No, just another sectarian, pir-based devotionalism the counterparts of which may also be found both in prior-Islamic history or among contemporary Jews and Hindus.

I always ask: "What is the Sufi doctrine of (Islamic) Governance?

What is their theory of individual political rights?

What is their proposal for reconciling the privileged speech of God in a Muslim polity with the requirements of freedom of speech and expression that is necessary for free inquiry?"

Sufis have no answers and nor does Gulen and his followers - just as Rumi and his order (the Whirling Dervishes) have no answers either.

Babak Makkinejad

Harper:

I think by the end of the Cold War, US does not need Turkey and Turkey does not need US.

I think the US-Turkey Alliance (I assume within NATO) has no need to exits any longer.

Babak Makkinejad

Probably.

All this speculation about internal dynamics of Iran is not just wrong, it lacks the proper perspective; e.g. the positive role that the Guardians of Revolution Corps have played in maintaining the integrity of the Iranian state.

robt willmann

The wise saying, "follow the money", applies to most issues, but beginning with the administrations of former president Bill Clinton and continuing on to now, "follow the gold" is equally important.

My guess is that gold is an issue in the current political upheaval in Turkey.

In the 1970's Saudi Arabia and then OPEC agreed to sell oil to the world only for dollars and in no other currency, and Saudi Arabia would spend a lot of those dollars buying U.S. government debt (treasury bonds) and stocks in the stock market casino. In exchange, the U.S. would protect the Saudi family who would run the country as its private business. And in 1971, president Richard Nixon without any authority from Congress released the U.S. from what remained of the partial gold standard established at Bretton Woods after World War II.

"Money" became to be seen as paper and electromagnetic data on computer tape and hard drives, and dollars were created and controlled by the private U.S. central bank, the Federal Reserve, which is in turn owned by some private member banks.

This forced the entire world to get dollars in order to buy oil and gas, which meant banks worldwide would have to hold dollars in reserve, which in turn made the dollar the "reserve currency" of the world on which the banking system was based. Because of this system, dollars were also used to settle trade for things other than oil and gas.

Thus, the Petrodollar was born, and you can easily see the influence and control this system gave the U.S. and western banks over the rest of the world. The lust for this kind of power is totally corrupting and over the last 20 years its negative effect has become obvious.

A message floating in the wind is that other countries have gotten tired of the financial manipulation and fraud by the large western banks and central banks and the militaristic and violent foreign policy of the U.S., and are doing something about it using gold. They are putting together documents backed by gold with which to settle trades, and this will avoid the U.S. dollar entirely, but the new method is not yet operational.

The sanctions against Iran have further encouraged this process. Iran has been selling oil and gas in exchange for gold and is getting around the sanctions that are based on the banking system with its paper and computerized "money". Turkey is said to be one intermediary in Iran's receipt of gold for commerce.

The U.S., Britain, and Israel would like to stop Iran's use of gold and to have a Turkish government that would not help Iran get gold as payment, in order to crush the Iranian economy with sanctions. Furthermore, they desperately want to maintain the Petrodollar and the dollar as the reserve currency for the world's banking system, because when the dollar is no longer the reserve currency and oil and gas is sold for other countries' money, it is all over but the crying for U.S. dominance worldwide.

One curious item in Harper's report above is that Russia has helped create some new problems for Erdogan's government through the issue of gold. This is odd because Russia is an active participant in working up the new gold-based trade settlement structure. Maybe Russia thinks Erdogan's group is getting too greedy in the gold transactions, or is helping the Syrian opposition too much, or both. Russia certainly wants Turkey to continue to participate in Iran's commerce that uses gold, regardless of who leads Turkish politics.

In 34 wonderful seconds, (now former) Congressman Ron Paul catches Ben Bernanke, chairman of the Not-Federal Reserve Bank, by surprise by asking him whether gold is money--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-oTjdjwg6I

The centuries have shown that gold is money. Today and in the new year of 2014, gold is where the action is, including in Turkey.

VietnamVet

This is very interesting. I know Colonel Lang does not belief in economic determinism but money is how humans exchange services in a civilized society.

If a mechanism to exchange gold for goods, services and oil is successful implemented, the Wall Street / City of London monopoly on greed would be destroyed. This is the stuff that starts wars; except, Russia has nuclear armed ICBMs. We are not just discussing of corruption in Turkey or the American withdrawal back to North America but the End Days of Western Civilization.

turcopolier

VV

Let's be clear I do not discount the effect of economics on historical decisions but it is only one of many factors in a decision to go to war. pl

Alba Etie

GDR ? Maybe Bandolero is retired Stasi ?

Alba Etie

Babak
Perhaps Turkey should look East to The Shanghai Cooperative Council .

Bandolero

turcopolier

The green belt idea may seem absurd, but there is strong evidence that it existed to some scope. There are, however, questions, whether the US operations to incite jihadi extremism in foreign countries are a covert US project, a strategy or just a thinking on some influental US people's mind, and there are questions, where are the limits of the green belt idea of the US empire in terms of time and and space.

The green belt idea is simple. Brzezinski explains it:

"What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire?"

Source:

http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/

The best documented part of the US inciting jihadi extremism to advance it's geopolitical agenda is likely the AfPak region. See here, US taxpayers covertly printing and funding textbooks intended to make out of school children jihadi extremists bound to kill "infidels" and a US president meeting jihadi extremists in the White House:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ABCs+of+Jihad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reagan_sitting_with_people_from_the_Afghanistan-Pakistan_region_in_February_1983.jpg

That part of history is well docuented. But what's less well documented is the question whether that US effort to incite islamic extremism was limited to the AfPak region and limited to the withdrawal of the USSR from Afghanistan. Some journalists of well-reputated papers of the Western Asia region claim the efforts of the US and it's NATO allies to inpire jihadi extremism where not limited to the AfPak region and not limited to the 80s. I put some links up above.

Some green belt theorists claim, the US and it's NATO allies made Khomeini the ruler of Iran. The fact is, that the US and it's allies decided in Guadeloupe that the Shah shall leave Iran and Khomeini was leading the insurgency from NATO-state France and he was flown into Tehran to exert power by Air France.

The MB jihadi extremist insurgency in Syria from 1978 to 1982 was mostly led from NATO-country Belgium.

Is that all, that's there as circumstancial evidence in scope of time and space? No. Just to name some more, well after the end of the Soviet presence in Afghanistan:

The leader of the Uighur jihadi extremists resides in the US, just as key figures in the Chechen jihadi extremist terrorism in Russia reside in the US. Jihadi extremists of the Al Qaeda brands operating in Bosnia seem to have been backed by the CIA, just as scores of jihadis devastating former Soviet republics in central Asia.

So, what about NATO-country Turkey? Fetullah Gülen, an important leader of the islamist struggle against a secular Turkey managed to flee prosecution in Turkey by residing in NATO-country USA where he lives until this day out of reach of the state institutions of Turkey. And he manages a lot of islamist indoctrination around the world, especially in former Soviet republics in central Asia thereby advancing special interests in that region.

So, is that all coincidence and singular events carried out by the US and it's allies out of humanitarian considerations or is it part of a broader US strategy - a green belt strategy - like it became evident in Afghanistan, and if so, what are the scope and nuances of that strategy? That's my question. That the US at some point in history somewhere used Islamist extremism to further it's geopolitical goals is - due to Afghanistan's 80s - out of question.

In Russia, many people believe, that the US, besides other tools like systematic main stream media propaganda lies and the subversion of governments with agents from the inside, still uses jihadi extremism and terrorism to further it's geopolitical agenda of world domination in the name of the unipolar "Washington consensus."

See for example Yevgeny Fyodorov, Duma MP of Putin's ruling ER, explaining that opinion in an interview in June 2013:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K3NDCIgEAo

Is this all wrong? Is the US really not supporting jihadi terrorists in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Syria, Russia and China to put pressure on governments it doesn't like?

I don't know. But my question about the scope in terms of time and geography of US support of jihadi extremism in the frame of a longrunning green belt project or otherwise is - absurd as it may seen by you - not rhetoric, but serious. Many governments and lawmakers - last not least in Russia and China - seem to have similar questions, at least those, who don't put up this question, because it's clear for them that the US is still the main sponsor of islamisation and jihadi terrorism in the world.

confusedponderer

" I met a young Turkish women, who didn't like Erdogan, something that interested me, because it ran counter to the prevalent narrative lionizing him. The reason? In his short tenure as prime minister, he had become Turkey's richest man."

The Turks I meet here are against him, being largely secular. As for the Erdogan being Turkey's richest man, and be that as it may, I can also easily imagine that being a rumour.

In my experience Turks put some emphasis on the spoken word, and when word comes from an authority like an aunt who am I to doubt?

On humorous note, in such context me expressing doubt (in terms as harsh as 'I deem that very improbable') has been interpreted, with some severity, as me suggesting that aunty is a liar. That was quite startling.

That is to say, Erdogan may just be Turkey's richest man, or not.

turcopolier

bandolero

"that the US is still the main sponsor of islamisation and jihadi terrorism in the world." Absurd. Someone give me a good reason not to ban this person. pl

Babak Makkinejad

Some of his comments are informative.

Some of his other comments are at least entertaining.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

October 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Blog powered by Typepad