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21 August 2013

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John Minnerath

Good.
Yes, less than he deserved, but hopefully he will serve most of his sentence.
And he thought he was mistreated during his pre trial detention, wait till he's been in the cell block for a few days with his new roomies!

oofda

In addition to the DD, he will also have to answer yes to questions on whether he has been convicted of a felony. A lot of doors will be forever closed to him because of that.

Daniel

"Some of Manning's future playmates.

They will cherish him."

Some nice allusions to prison-rape to go with your blog post?

While I often enjoy your analysis, often you reveal a certain close-mindedness and vindictiveness. This shows up when you talk about Manning, or talk about all those strange alien people who live in the blue-state metro "archipelagos" (who outnumber the people you deem to be "real Americans").


shepherd

This should be brought to the attention of those advocating military justice for terrorism suspects. "Military" only sounds tough (in this context). In practice civilian justice tends be harsher. It'll be interesting to see if the death penalty is applied in Hasan's case.

turcopolier

daniel

Even in California where you live the left is not as strong as you imagine and is portrayed by your pet media. Look at the county result maps of elections. You people on the left live in urban islands where lawyers like you are protected by gated communities and security guards. as I wrote some time ago the GOP will probably be a Congressional party for some time and because of your weakness outside the big cities and the gerrymandering will continue to tie you and your friends in knots.

As for the pathetic little Manning creature, your feeling for him betrays the total disregard lefty civilians like you have for the need for "good order and discipline" in the military. the soldiery generally think of people like you as they would of any other form of insectoid life and they are personally far stronger and more capable of violence than you can imagine (not Manning). Without the "good order and discipline" of the military you would learn to live in a North American version of Sisi's Egypt. For that reason Manning's conviction and punishment is far more important than Manning could ever be. You don't like my little joke about Manning's new friends? Feel free not to come to my site. pl

Walrus

There are a number of issues that have got wound together here.

1. I share Col. Langs view of the need for conduct and good order in the military and I think Mannings sentence was just, considering he will probably be out in Ten years and lionised by the left.

2. Anyone with some legal training knows that people are to be punished by being placed IN jail (loss of liberty) not AT jail (prison rape) and Manning has exactly the same rights at law as any other citizen to be protected from sexual predators. This is something most Americans don't seem to want to understand and, considering the moral tone this website aspires to, Daniel is right to point out that schadenfreude about Mannings supposed fate is less than appropriate.

3. While the country vs. city debate is fun, I note that farmers still want access to the best of city based healthcare and all the electronic gadgets developed by left wing, army hating, lentil burger eating, nimby pimby, metrosexual nerds. I also note that some city folk don't even know where milk comes from. I am not a fan of city vs. country politics as it ends up as just a fight between special interest groups. What is needed are nationwide policies.

Mark Logan

High profile. The management will protect him and accept the punishment for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Brig,_Quantico

turcopolier

walrus

Manning will certainly end up in a plush Club Fed civilian facility with his lily white butt protected from people like the ones in the picture. Manning is a foresworn spy and will be treated better than he deserves. As I have said before you would not be so sympathetic to him if he were an Australian soldier. You don't like the fact that the non-big city population here doesn't like the Democrats? So what? You may have American citizenship but your sympathies certainly are not here. what are we supposed to do, surrender to the lefties? You don't like my laughing at Manning. I had no idea you were such a softy. pl

turcopolier

walrus

"considering the moral tone this website aspires to..." you have a lot of gall. pl

walrus

Thanks for your reply Col. Lang. I am not so much a softy but more a cold hearted economic realist. Maintaining Prisons cost money. Recidivism costs money. Badly behaving prisoners cost money, the courts cost money, as do the police.

We can all have our sadistic fun with convicted felons, but we pay for it in other ways, like increased insurance premiums, security systems, security guards and a general sense of personal unease. I believe its been demonstrated that it is generally cheaper to provide "plush club fed" conditions than the reverse, but of course there are those who want to see others suffer extra hard for their sins..

As for Mannings crime, I fail to see it resulted in much more than mild international diplomatic embarrassment for America which has already passed, but others may know more.

What is more concerning to me is the potential damage to the U.S.A. through the manufacture of various cause celebre out of Assange, Manning, Snowden, Greenwald, his boyfriend, Laura Poiras the Guardian Newspaper and perhaps others for the "crime" of exposing unconstitutional behaviour.

As for an Australian soldier, so what? Let them stand trial. The treatment of Mannings unconscionable treatment in the brig got my goat, as is the continuing efforts to "get" Assange.

As for "surrendering to the Lefties", I don't think there are many remaining. What counts for "left" in America looks like the center everywhere else from my experience.

As for city bound Democrats vs Republicans, who can tell them apart? A plague on both...

MartinJ

I'd rather hear about what was the conversation he had in his head about copying all the documents onto a smuggled thumb drive then uploading them on his personal computer. Every day. What the hell was going on in that mind? Revenge on his bullies?
Im sorry but this man should never have been placed in that level of trust. A gross failure in management. I mean, look at the "man".

Alba Etie

Would but Manning rot in jail now & forever just like Pollard . No parole ever for traitors with American blood on their hands..

turcopolier

walrus

I really don't care what is considered "left" in the rest of the world. pl

Alba Etie

Could not the same gross mismanagement be cited in clearing Snowden for his position ?

amspirnational

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soF2uIe8GPk

Ron Paul is not a leftist, but his son, you'll like, is selling out his father's legacy-even on this subject.

http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2013/08/so-would-president-rand-paul-pardon.html

turcopolier

amspirnational

I said he was soft in the head. pl

turcopolier

AE

Yes, mismanagement from a misguided sense of compassion but not unusual. There have always been a few low level MI people like him. I could tell you a few stories. pl

MartinJ

I dont think so. He genuinely - or so it appears - seems to have decided that the NSA is actively ignoring the constitution. Contrast that with Manning who seems to have decided to engage in some kind of anonymous "payback" against the system.

turcopolier

All

Something I should make clear is that I think the information Manning disclosed is a fairly minor matter. It is the breach of discipline that must be punished for. pl

Karim

He issued a humiliating apology in exchange for a lenient sentence. Fair enough. It does remind me a bit of the Soviet Union (albeit that there he would have apologised and STILL been shot) in the sense that the government seems intent on crushing Manning as a person and an ideal.
Yet it seems to me that what he did was reveal war crimes (with the "collateral murder" video for example -- what he was thinking when he also leaked the diplomatic cables I don't know). I am not American, but isn't it a duty of US soldiers to prevent and expose war crimes? And could one not argue (based for my part on the news, not on any personal experience with the US armed forces) that in Iraq the US armed forces developed a culture of negligence where someone like Manning would have been actively discouraged from following offical channels to expose such crimes? (One reads a lot about this being a problem in rape cases, for example.) I do not understand why the argument that he followed his conscience and had no other recourse is so unacceptable. Is his duty to his conscience and the international laws of war not greater than a non-disclosure agreement at some army department?
A similar argument was made regarding Snowden: he should have followed official channels. But he had ample opportunity to see from Drake and others the effectiveness of that approach. Maybe Manning did too.

joe brand

And his chain of command, which allowed a soldier they didn't trust with a weapon to have regular, unmonitored access to SIPR? And to put discs in the DVD drive? *That* is a "breach of discipline." But we apparently don't do command responsibility anymore.

Alba Etie

What I was trying to ask regardless of the different motivations for what both Manning & Snowden had for revealing secrets - has it come time for all parts of national our government to review the hows & whys of which individuals get access to 'top secret information " . It is a separate issue in my opinion on whether or not the NSA has ignored our Constitution . I do believe DIA Clapper lied to Congress and should be held accountable . And as a slight detour into editorializing - given what is known about Prism & other activities by the NSA I am very uncomfortable with any type of national registry for firearms.

turcopolier

joe brand

i would love to see his chain of command punished. How far up do you want to go? pl

turcopolier

karim

So far as I know Manning never attempted to approach his chain of command over his ethical difficulty with the material he was reading. BTW much of it was not necessary to his work. as for the recording of the helicopter fire on people on the ground, they apparently thought this was a group of insurgents. This was not a war crime or any other kind of crime. people get killed in war by happenstance. you don't seem to know that. pl

Fred

Proud words from a California bankruptcy lawyer. Manning couldn't handle the discipline of being on active duty in the army. Prion rape? He's got allot more to fear that than being as weak as he is. Vindictiveness? That man decided the proper way to show his discontent for the national policy was to collect as much classified material he had access to and dumped it into the public realm. That'll teach America! Perhaps if the other Snowdens of the NSA decided they were pissed off at lawyers and that the correct way to get things changed was to collect all their relevant data and dump it into the public sphere you might be as equally concerned with the discipline there and within the armed forces our host is.

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