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05 June 2013

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Will Reks

Its Congress that imposed changes to the military to make it more pro-gay. They deserve their share of the credit.

My own take is that if the Chiefs publicized rising male-on-male sexual violence it would receive the same scrutiny from the Obama WH and Congress because support for gay rights does not necessarily equate to support of gay sex offenders.

Since I'm in tradoc land I can tell you that the Army is cracking down on 17-21 year olds which statistics show as committing most sexual assaults. Some consequences are 2100 curfew including weekends as well as dry barracks and a ban on alcohol consumption for those in the IET pipeline.

Constellation

It would be absurd to suggest that (if these figures are true) the US military has suddenly been invaded by thousands of criminally minded gays. I realize that the Colonel believes Americans to be at another level of humanity than the rest of us, but perhaps a comparison with other nations’ forces would be in order.

In todays NYT, Maureeen Dowd quotes a Eugene Fidell, who says about the hearings, “the arguments of the brass ‘boiled down to an almost mystical notion of the commanders’ responsibility.’” She suggests that the Americans employ an antiquated British military justice model, one that the British themselves have long since discarded due to the massive conflicts of interest involved.

Organizations or lines of command that “investigate” themselves almost always whitewash the results. (Police forces are notorious failures in that respect.) I think it would be better to bypass the mystical traditions of leadership and focus on what works, perhaps by examining other nations’ successful models. It’s all about checks and balances, as us democracy lovers like to say.

turcopolier

Constellation old Thing

Your comments and those of the harridan Dowd merely reveal that you have no conception of the nature of combat nor of the nature of combat command. It has nothing to do with being American. These are universals. As for the gayness of foreign armies, that is their problem. Few of these armies have fought anyone for a long time and their homosexual elements are not found in the fighting forces, except maybe in the UK. Do you deny the figures in the DoD reporting? pl

Constellation

Consider this, pl, what is under consideration is not a combat situation at all, unless it is the norm, in your experience, that American soldiers would traditionally be having sex in the middle of combat operations. I would hope that’s not the case—just in terms of efficiency.

I suggest that it’s not the orientation that is the issue, it’s the abuse of power that’s the problem. There is a natural tendency to protect one’s own. So the criminals get let off and the victims get harassed because they’re not “on the team.” Ideally, justice is not tribal, but is a careful consideration of what is right and what is wrong.

turcopolier

constellation

You understand nothing. Rape is a crime under US military law. Therefore it must be prosecuted and punished.. I fully support that and support holding commanders responsible for doing so at penalty of the destruction of their careers if they do not.

Having said that I must say that you do not understand that the military are not civilian cops. Cops only use their weapons in self defense, Our business is killing people and destroying things as routine elements of business. All the elements of military life must support the creation and maintenance of the combat mind. It does not matter if combat is currently occurring. All of military life must necessarily be preparation for combat. in pursuit of that end the introduction of civilian standards of behavior is deeply subversive of the creation of combat capability. If you want that, get rid of the army and marine corps. they are a waste of your money. pl

Constellation

I see your perspective that the crimes are already there under military law. However, all this noise that we’re hearing now would not be there presumably if the problems were being dealt with properly. My point in bringing in the police example is to note how rare it is that an institutionalized group will analyze and prosecute itself effectively if a complaint is made against it. Hence the need to bring in outside people.

Because, as you say, there is a perceived need to create a military state of mind, that larger goal may come to take precedence in the juridical mind over the individual rights of those people who have been criminally attacked. This is especially true if those given the task of prosecuting and judging are simultaneously on both sides of the issue, if they suffer from a conflict of interest. In the end, ruling for “the team” could subvert the effectiveness of the larger group if it ends up being riven with discord.

There is the question of the rights of those individuals involved in the military. I suspect most of the victims were likely attacked in “down-times,” r&r periods. Have they abandoned all of their rights of citizenship? Is it okay for them to be subjected to criminal acts in the greater scheme of things? I would think a functional and effective group will be one that has faith in its own contribution to the greater good.

Tyler

No, I think it would be shoved under the carpet. The Narrative has a lot invested in protecting the image of homosexuals. Glee and the rest all portray homosexuality as happy and fun, when the reality is a lot darker with rent boys, rough trade, Hedonistic sex, and bugchasers/gift givers all being part of the modern homosexual experience.

These are the same people trying to normalize pedophilia in their drive for 'progress'. The truth is the first casualty of war and all that.

Paul Escobar

Constellation,

There certainly is an "orientation" issue.

Boys were the "overwhelming majority" of victims in the Catholic child-abuse scandal. Now it is revealed that young men are being overwhelmingly targeted for sexual abuse in the military.

And in both cases, the corporate media refuses to report such "inconvenient" truths.

They would rather depict homosexuals as some feminine, childish, & nurturing eunuchs. The young victims are left to face the truth...evil-minded men - who always happen to be physically, financially, & intellectually superior to their victims.

You clearly view yourself as some principled defender of those with a peculiar biological "orientation". In fact, you are only enabling those who seek distraction & thrills through acts of taboo & abuse.

Deep down, you know what I say is true. I wish you luck in resisting the cultural "programming" that pervades your thoughts.

Best,
PE

turcopolier

All

The data in the "workplace satisfaction survey" is probably bogus. this was one of many such surveys imposed on military people. They are resented and frivolous responses are often given in annoyance at the process. the responses are anonymous. Nevertheless, this is the "data" that the senate women, McCain the mad, and the Obama Administration are using to pillory military leadership. If the data is to be believed then as some have pointed out here, there is an epidemic of homosexual molestation. So, which choice do you want? do you want the data to be crap or do you want there to a wave of aggressive homosexual molestation? pl

Fred

Rights? Those accused of a crime: "Have they abandoned all of their rights of citizenship?" Apparently so since only the accussers are recieving special legal assistance.

You claim "... the need to bring in outside people."

This implies that the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, Barrack Obama, has failed in his constitutional obligations. He should therefore be impeached for "high crimes and misdomeanors". I can think of no worse thing than destroying the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces of the United States. That seems to be exactly what has happened as a result of the poicies imposed by this administration.

Fred

"...quotes a Eugene Fidell"

Yep, Ms. Dowd quotes a law school professor who just happens to be Bradley Manning's lawyer. Real surprise there.

Bill H

"They are resented and frivolous responses are often given in annoyance at the process."

Surely you jest. No paragon of virtue who wears our uniform would do such a thing. Unless, that is, he had a chance to mess with the heads of the REMFs who imposed these sillyass regulations of political correctness on him.

Chris E

Those aren't mutually exclusive possibilities. The data could overestimate the level of offences, whilst there is simultaneously a rise in male-on-male sexual violence.

If you want to attribute it to 'aggressive homosexuals' then you'll have to posit tens of thousands of gays have joined the military in the last few years. Conversely, the situation could be similar to that in prison and what these figures actually indicate is a breakdown in the military command structure.

Wyvern

Interesting. I tried following up the links and couldn't find a reference to this report on the Wash. times page. Any chance we could get a link to the original study
so we can check out the report ourselves and draw our own conclusions?

turcopolier

wyvern

I don't have the time to do that but someone here will find you a link. pl

VietnamVet

Colonel,

You are right; there is an agenda being played out to get American troops into Syria and back into Iraq, all over again.

The soldiers I watched on “Frontline” and “Restrepo”, aren’t the same as I remember 42 years ago. I don’t remember any horseplay. At LZ English, I witnessed the Silent Mutiny. A driver I knew in a 2nd Battalion Support Group was killed by an exploding grenade meant for his officer. We always had a locked and loaded M-16 handy. Everyone was treated with kid gloves. At Fort Lewis some hippies did steal an empty M-16 from a guard so that duty was professionalized. I never had to stand guard at 3 AM at the motor pool ever again. At Fort Lee during Advanced Training I was punched in the chest by a rural Alabama Negro upset because I called him a “Black”. But, that one gay sexual assault occurred back then is unthinkable. It was a guaranteed fast ticket to Leavenworth forever.

14,000 male on male sexual assaults per year is astonishing.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/20/victims-of-sex-assaults-in-military-are-mostly-sil/?page=all

If true, discipline is collapsing in the military. The Commander in Chief has far greater problems than the War Lovers trying to establish a no fly zone over Syria.

Twenty years ago I took my sons through Fort Lewis to show them where I served. When I drove out the gate, it felt like I was being released from a Prison. It appears that feeling has become reality.

Our Elite simply do not give a damn for enlistees, long tern unemployed, indentured students, Muslims, prisoners or any other “untermenschen” not their peers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch

Tigershark

Col.

Since others have brought up the Catholic Church, could the problem be that both the military and the Church are hierarchical organizations?

Yes, I recognize the military has to be organized that way, but how many of the cases are upper ranks preying on lower ranks? Many, many of the cases reported in my area military community seem to be of that variety. That has less to do with the end of DADT and is simple power and authority over an underling. Many of the Church cases are of the same kind, power and authority over young children.

Another issue has to be lower recruiting standards. The backgrounds and crimes of some of the accused in reported cases leads on to question how they got into the military.

taras

i beleive this is the link.

http://www.sapr.mil/index.php/research

turcopolier

All

I accidentally deleted this message from someone called Robin.

"There are two volumes to the report: http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/FY12_DoD_SAPRO_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault-VOLUME_ONE.pdf http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/FY12_DoD_SAPRO_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault-VOLUME_TWO.pdf" pl

Nancy K

Rape has as much to do with power and control as sex. Not all men who rape other men would classify themselves as homosexual. Most of the men who rape in prison are not homosexual, it is more a rape of convenience, as there are not women available. Just as not all men rape women, all homosexuals do not rape men. It would be interesting to see if those men accused of raping men were in fact homosexual or identified themselves as.

turcopolier

nancyK

I can see that these wars in the ME are something like a prison situation. in my wars three was always a plethora of local women who were available and willing, more than willing. I do remember a French plantation manager who was an agent of mine telling me that he was tired of 1st Infantry division soldiers coming from their camp to flop down in his wife's rose garden to pleasure each other, but this was an unusual thing when the price of vaginal intercourse and fellatio was a dollar in Vietnamese towns. This was usually offered as a combination deal. "Hey, GI, I love you long time," etc. pl

turcopolier

tigershark

I think this kind of abuse is about both power and sex. The army is inevitably about hierarchicy and autocraticy. I remember IDF generals and colonels telling me, when in their cups, of how ruthlessly they exploited women conscripts, many of whom equally ruthlessly flaunted their sexuality. pl

Tyler

So then why the hell is Left so busy trying to shove females into the combat arms? Rhetorical question, because the answer is that they think humans are all 'blank slates' they're free to inscribe their particularly noxious brand of ideology on.

Mark Logan

VV,

Just suggesting a possible explanation for the "14,000": Clowning with the earnest middle-management suck-up self-styled head-shrinks who continually pelt us with questionnaires.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/03/if-you-pay-them-money-partisans-will-tell-you-the-truth/

JM Gavin

The reported numbers of male and female victims is suspect, given that less than 3000 sexual assaults were reported that year. 24-28,000 unreported assaults, regardless of the victim's gender, is purely speculative, whether those numbers came from anonymous surveys, extrapolation, or educated guesswork.

This is political theater, and is detracting from far more pressing issues facing the military right now.

JMG

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