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16 April 2013

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SAC Brat

What could go wrong? Middle School 270 meters from chemical plant.

http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/04/18/john-galt-kills-texans-in-massive-fertilizer-plant-explosion/

CK

Prior to 9/11, the US govt. was very pro-Chechen separatists; very anti-Russian dictatorship.
After 9/11, the fuzzy feelings toward Chechen Terrorists evaporated. The school bombings in neighbouring Russian states by Chechen Freedom Fighters did nothing to improve the official American Opinions.
Displaying extreme disinterest in the whole of Russia and its subsidiary components internal squabbles might have been a good idea ... in hindsight.

mbrenner

Implications? When you are dealing with amateurs acting (as far we now know) on their own, there is no way to prevent acts like this unless we are ready to introduce draconian policing 24/7/365. Their individual, particular motivations have little significance since their are multiple grievances out there and, in the Islamic world, there is free-floating angst. Let us hope for two things: the frequency does nor rise - 1 in 12 years as of now; and, that the emotions of those hypothetical really skilled and disciplined people I've alluded to remain below the action threshold.

Tyler

Chechens are a nasty piece of work, generally speaking. The one that got killed detonated a suicide vest after he was shot.

no one

Sir, aren't we then just delving into highly nuanced semantics at some point? The DC sniper duo could be assessed as terrorists or they could be assessed as just plain nuts. Even the Boston Strangler had his reasons - they were personal, but reasons nonetheless.

It seems to me a grey demarcation between sociopathic criminal and "terrorist". When is some self justification for homicidal behavior along political lines become terrorism?

A guy robs a bank and shoots a few bankers in the process. He says to himself, "Screw'em. They're rich guys messing us little guys. Serves'em right", jumps in his get away car and goes on to blow the loot on wine, women and song.

Is he a common criminal? Or is he a terrorist because of the ideation concerning rich versus poor?

I won't be convinced that the bombers are terrorists more than next generation Lanza's until some hard proof is released that they were largely motivated by some cause transcendent to their own damaged little egos.

Eliot

Pat,

I've never studied early Christianity, was that true of the early church as well? Or is it uniquely Islamic?

Clifford Kiracofe

Muslim terrorists, Chechen origin refugees to US a decade ago, not US citizens but resident aliens.

http://rt.com/news/chechnya-suspect-boston-bombing-110/

Mother has a police record in Mass. which US press has suppressed.

So, consistent with AQ's "lone wolf" promotion. Self-radicalized via Internet and however else to be determined by law enforcement and IC.

Chechnya and Dagestan have been targets of Saudi Wahhabi penetration for some three decades. The Wahhabis displace the traditional Sufi brotherhood local leadership and so on. The Islamist Pakistani Tablighi Jamaat was reportedly in Chechnya creating networks back in the late 1970s early 1980s.

Edward Amame

Just heard the uncle on the radio. He sounded frantic and said that if he'd any idea of what his nephews were up to, he'd have turned them in. He and his family are probably terrified. I don't know if that extends to others in Muslim-American communities in Boston and elsewhere.

In the immediate aftermath of 9-11, neighbors in the East Village (here in NYC) had to come to the rescue of a mosque on 10th St near 1st Ave. They formed a human chain around it when a crowd of people showed up hell bent on revenge.

Charles I

Acknowledged. Default defense, what with the 9/11 bombers apparently coming from here, we're kinda touchy.

CBC Radio has just played a clip of a purported aunt of the suspects, resident in Toronto, claiming to the effect " I know these boys, they're good boys, not capable. . . "

Lee

For anybody who might be interested in the most up to date info on the manhunt, I've been using this crowdsourced bit of news:

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1coqlh/live_boston_update_thread_unofficial_5/

turcopolier

no one

OK. stand by to be wrong. pl

Babak Makkinejad

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines; is "Lock-down" the same as "Martial Law"?

And who has the authority to declare it?

Astonishing development as well as euphomism.

One wonders, also, where is ACLU?

turcopolier

Eliot

I suppose you are referring to my comment on the issue of Islam (however you define Islam)being seamless garment in which all aspects of life are united in one fabric. It must be emphasized that Islam is many things to many different people. Islam is a monotheistic faith that worships an undivided God. At the same time Islam is a religion without hierarchy, no priests, no "bishops." opinions as to the nature of Islam and its requirements are formed among groups of Muslims on the basis of consensus (ijma')Some consensus groups are very large (millions) on the basis of the consensus of experts (ulema')in the Islamic religious sciences. This is true even in Shia Islam where the ayatollahs in the sacred assemblies are still just scholars whose opinions are thought invalid after their deaths. Thus, you can have Muslim groups of a few hundred who believe that unending violent jihad is required and others such as those here on SST who believe that jihad is a matter of inner struggle for perfection and that a reasonable loyalty to a non-Muslim state is allowed. These two men opted for some variant that requires violence against non-Muslims as part of jihad. As to your specific question, IMO Christianity before the Reformation, Catholic Counter-Reformation, and the Renaissance was very similar in its mentality. The notion that life can be divided into the divine and the earthly is a deeply secular notion that certainly did not exist in Christendom until Westerners began to lose belief in the primacy of the search for salvation in another life and the unimportance of this world's business. such a transformation has never occurred in Islam except in fairly minor sectarian settings as in the Ahmedi sect in South Asia. Such efforts have always failed before onslaught of the forces of traditional belief. pl

turcopolier

Babak

"Martial Law" is the complete exercise of authority by the military on the basis of the inability of the civil government to function. This is not that. pl

JMH

Two thoughts:

The elder brother was named after Tamerlane, a common Turkic name I'm told but one that could have informed his mind set.

They attacked a marathon, each race being a remembrance of a battle where West triumphed over East.

turcopolier

All

One of the sad things visible in all this is the inability of the MSM and Americans in general to understand the differences in meaning of 1- Ethnic national identity and culture (in this case Chechen) 2- place of birth of residence (it matters not that these two men were born in Chechniya, Dagestan, Kirgyztan or Hoboken. they lived in a Chechen cultural matrix. they are Chechens)3- Citizenship. Citizenship does not define loyalty or self-image. I would like to have five dollars for every Arab or Muslim who has told me that his US born children are not American. "They have the passport," is what they inevitably say. pl

mbrenner

As I recall the recent history, the secessionist movement was not led by fundamentalist fanatics althought it was not pacific. The violent jihadis came to dominate in the conditions created by the brutal Russian suppression that entailed scorched earth tactics producing vast casualties among the civilian population and devastating Chechnyan villages and towns. The dynamic, if not the magnitude, is little different than what we accomplished in Iraq and are helping to accomplish in Pakistan. Moscow did have greater success in its choice of puppets.

jr786

When I saw the photos I thought they were Baluchis, or Pakistani, never Arabs. What I wonder is how Chechens come to do this in the US, against Americans. Why not attack the Russian consulate (if there is one in Boston) or go to New York? If they are acting as Muslims instead of as Chechen nationalists who happen to be Muslim then this could be an indicator of a non-discriminating reaction to "Western", in this case non-Muslim incursions into Muslim lands. The religio-nationalist application of al wala wa bara.

When Muslims start thinking of themselves as Muslims first, without national, ethnic or tribal prioritization of identity (you understand the reference)then this attack starts to make some kind of sense.

Without that prioritization of Muslim identity, I just can't see the point in it. I've yet to hear anything about how Muslim they actually were - it's usually the first thing you hear.

turcopolier

mbrenner

Most Caucasian ethnics are Sufi oriented Sunnis. Such people are locked in a relationship of mutual anathema with the Salafists. You are correct in saying that that Soviet and Russian savagery against them in the 1st and 2nd Chechen Wars allowed the entry of Salafist jihadis into Chechen society but they are nothing like the controlling force. I do not agree with your comments about Iraq and Afghanistan. in neither of those places have the salafist jihadis succeeded in becoming the dominant force in Sunni Islam. pl

turcopolier

jr786

"Muslims instead of as Chechen nationalists who happen to be Muslim" A distinction without meaning since for religious Muslims these aspects of life are inseparable. How religious were they? How would you know? You want to know how observant they were of some version of sharia? The 9/11 bombers went out to get drunk and whore around before their attack. If you are a shahiid, all will be forgiven you. it is true that salafists of the AQ variety care for nothing but salvation. My guess is that these were both Chechen nationalists and jihadis. pl

Babak Makkinejad

There are many many people called Chengiz or Teymour (after Tamerlan - Teymour the Lang (Lame)).

I recall the famous writer Chengiz Aitmatov as well as the young African-American man called Teymour who fixed my computer.

As for Marathon - the news of the defeat of the Great King there was highly exaggerated by the Greeks.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that any Muslims, outside of Shia Iran, know, care, or identify one whit with the wars between the Ancient Greek Polises and the Persian Empire.

WP

There is one very clear message that can be drawn from this event: It is very easy and inexpensive to shut down a major U.S. city and to cause massive economic damage.

When the threat is measured in terms of its lethality, it is miniscule, perhaps to the point of non-existence. The order of battle is ridiculously unbalanced. Here we apparently have one guy with guns and some minor explosives versus literally thousands of armed police and troops equipped with the most sophisticated weapons available. The expense of his operation from start at the race to the finish when he dies will be probably less than $1,000 and he stole $800 along the way, perhaps to net a profit. This one guy is draining all of this wealth and he may not even still be alive.

It seems strange that Boston would need to bring in SWAT teams from New Hampshire and armored vehicles draped with men to parade before the cameras. This is an exercise of hundreds of men (boys at heart) finally getting a chance to parade their gear and guts for their own enjoyment and our adoration. Little of this display of force is even conceivably necessary. A whole region is shut down and millions, including me, have wasted valuable time being entertained. Great for the news media, terrible for the taxpayers and workers who have lost a day of pay.

All with an order of battle of 1 (who may be dead already) vs. 10,000+

T lesson will be reinforced and this will happen again. The show of force projects extreme weakness, not strength. The fear industry is just thriving today!

Babak Makkinejad

I had a similar experience with children of Ukranian and Lithuanian exiles before the fall of the Soviet Union.

I personally thought it unconscionable for the parents to pass on to their children their political struggles and well as defeats in a new country - trying to fight their wars for them.

Babak Makkinejad

You are reading too much into this.

10% of the population of the Russian Federation is Muslim and then there are the tens of thousands of Central Asian Mulsims - mostly men - who work in Russia and send money back.

I think in cass such as this one has to try to be as specific and focused as possible.

Babak Makkinejad

My recollection was that the "brutal Russian suppression" began after repeated Chechen incursions into the rest of the Southern Russian territory; the Chechen seemed to me to be going out of their way to provole Russians.

And they succeeded.

"Scorched Earth" you say.

Was that not what Sherman's March entailed?

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