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28 March 2013

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no one

CNN is whining that Congress took too long to act and missed their golden opportunity to ban guns (or at least certain types of guns). CNN doesn't get it either. Congress was smart, politically, to NOT ride the wave of sentiment following the Newton incident. Clearly The People can be fickle and, just as clearly, when the hysteria dies down, The People are not in the majority in favor of any new strict gun laws.

Here in NY Cuomo rammed legislation through while emotions were high. He's going to suffer as a result. Residents outside of NYC are realizing that the limitation of magazine capacity to 7 rounds is a de facto confiscation. Example: My farm insurance agent was over the day. He has several semi-auto firearms with magazine capacity above 7 rounds (the ones I specifically remember him mentioning are a Glock 9mm and an M1 carbine). He has contacted the manufacturers to see when new 7 round mag.s will be available. The answer, in all cases, is "never". He now must either take the guns out of state and sell them or dispose of the magazines and operate them as manually fed single shot guns. He's ticked off and he's not alone.

Liberal fascists, prepare for a backlash.

CK

Probably he gained access after he had killed her. The keys or the code or the combination would have been on her person.

turcopolier

CK

So you think the gun he shot her with was not in the gun safe? pl

walrus

Why would she do a stupid thing like that Col. Lang?

Simple. Failure of imagination.

Many of us see failure of imagination daily - the inability to comprehend that dire situations of all kinds can and do develop with no warning. This ability to imagine is an evolutionary survival tool in my opinion because it allows us to perceive threats and respond intelligently and hopefully in good time.

We see it almost daily on the roads - the tailgating idiot who fails to imagine what is going to happen to him if a vehicle ahead makes an emergency stop and thus misprices the associated risks of his behaviour.

In Victoria we lost 173 people in the 2009 Black Saturday bushfires because the Chief executive of the coordinating emergency services failed to imagine the possibility of a large fast moving series of bushfires crossing the administrative and command and control boundaries between firefighting groups. The result? Most people got no warning of what was coming and its ferocity. A few simple command and control headquarters exercises whould have highlighted the issue and avoided the chaotic response on the day.

Lanzas mother failed to imagine that her child might possibly be either unable to resist temptation or capable of evil under certain circumstances. She paid with her life.

jr786

At the time, the FBI people said that even though he had sabotaged/destroyed his computers they could gain access to them. I haven't heard anything since.

If he was a frequent player of these insanely violent computer games would we even hear about it?

Alba Etie

Col Lang
Some of us may disagree , (politely )-regarding gay marriage - I am for it , as it in my opinion expands individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But all of us here at SST, it seems are 2nd amendment absolutists . I imagine there are many more citizens killed and injured due to our crumbling infrastructure then there are citizen's killed and injured by guns.Lets figure out how to fund and rebuild our infrastructure - and leave our gun rights unabridged.

Alba Etie

no one said
Liberal fascist - thats a nice turn of phrase - I rather like it . Not only could it apply to 'liberals' trying to take away our guns- it could also apply to liberals who refuse to go after the ongoing criminal conspiracies that Goldman Sachs perpetrated with the synthetic derivatives , and other financial traps and snares employed by the banksters ,

Bobo

It seems the Gun Safe (vault) in the Lanza home was found in young Adam's room. The contents listed in the search warrants are extensive bringing into question the sanity of the individual who provided the funding for these contents that seemed to be readily available to Adam.

As to proposed gun laws I had hoped to see some mechanism to limit the amount of ammunition in a given magazine/clip. I do believe the NY law is too restrictive.

As to Marriage I believe it should be left to heterosexuals while I also believe homosexuals should be able to enter civil unions and enjoy whatever the benefits are that heterosexuals enjoy in Marriage.

turcopolier

Bobo

Since the objective of the anti-gun people is eventual limitation of second amendment right, they do not want to dwell on the simple fact that Lanza's mother caused newtown. they want us all to focus on the guns themselves. "These are not the 'droids you are looking for." pl

elkern

I consider myself one of "us here at SST" - I've been posting here for years, and Col Lang has bumped at least one of my posts up to a full thread - yet I am NOT a "2nd Amendment Absolutist". Nor is even Col Lang, in my view - he has expressed respect for the limitations on fully automatic weapons, and he was at least willing to discuss other options (Sorry if I am misrepresenting your position...).

The "Committee of Correspondence" here includes at least a few people who - like myself - are in favor of stricter regulation of SOME kinds of weapons. I chose to limit my postings on the issue, partly because of the over-the-top response of some other SST'rs.

Recognizing that many other regulars here are experienced gun users, I had hoped to find a useful discussion of options for compromise (mag size, etc); I was largely disappointed. Many other commenters took the NRA position (Absolutist); discussion at that point became pointless. It's a shame.


On your final point, I'm right there with you on rebuilding our infrastructure (though I doubt that there are thousands of people killed yearly in the US by collapsing bridges, etc).

Will Reks

Millions of teenagers and adults play these kinds of games and watch violent media without committing violent crime. Blaming games and violent movies is just as silly as the vendetta against legal gun ownership.

Bobo

Yes, Obi-Wan I shall, but I believe she was looking for a different outcome.

no one

I'm glad you like it Alba. Fascist in the traditional sense. Liberal in that they distract from the machinations of traditional fascism by providing crude libertine circus (carnival, Sodom...give it a name) to the masses.

Allen Thomson

> At the time, the FBI people said that even though he had sabotaged/destroyed his computers they could gain access to them. I haven't heard anything since.

There are a number of secure erase (basically delete-and-overwrite) programs out there, several of them free, that would make it difficult to recover erased files. These are widely known and a computer-savvy teenager would not be unlikely to use them.

See
http://www.piriform.com/
http://eraser.heidi.ie/

Whether they would withstand recovery attempts by a fully equipped forensic laboratory at the FBI or NSA, I couldn't say.

no one

elkern, I understand your reticence to engage on the issue. Being one of the "2A absolutists" I thought I'd explain myself to you any how.

BTW, I've been reading this outstanding blog since its inception. I rarely have posted a comment over the years, though.

I agree with you that, in a perfect world, some form of compromise would be a somewhat reasonable negotiating position and outcome.

However, in the real world, not so much.

It is clear that the anti-gun crowd means to eliminate all forms of gun ownership. It's just that they realize they will have to accomplish their mission in increments.

Again, I offer New York as evidence.

Therefore, I take the absolutists stance and hold firm there. If the gun grabbers are going to gain any ground they're going to have to fight for every inch of it and the cost will be prominent in their collective memory when they start considering the next campaign to further erode the 2A.

One doesn't make compromises with an opponent who is determined to ultimately achieve his original objective sooner or later.

Today we agree to ban 30 round magazines. Tomorrow there is a "mass shooting" involving a pump action shotgun and a revolver. By compromising we have established the precedent. Shotguns and revolvers are banned and the 2A is dead.

I don't know about the number of fatalities linked to infrastructure collapse, but I did read - and believe - that around nine people are killed every day due to "distracted driving" (read texting and cell phone use while behind the wheel). What of it, elkern? Do we make a felony to text while driving? Do we have a national discussion regarding banning cell phones capable of text messaging? Do we require a background check in order to purchase a cell phone? Where is Pelosi, et al on all of that?

The Twisted Genius

I get the feeling mother Lanza was using firearms and shooting as a joint activity to connect with her son and, perhaps, treat him. Wasn't that former SEAL sniper trying the same thing with troubled veterans? Given the results in both cases, I'd say it was a bad idea. They should have stuck to the violent video games.

I'd be surprised if any gun control legislation actually makes it through Congress. The demise of DOMA seems imminent. The California court's determination that prop 8 is unconstitutional will probably be allowed to stand. The republicans will be looking for a victory and they can get it by stopping any attempt at gun control legislation.

Tyler

"Liberal fascists, prepare for a backlash."

:) I can only hope.

Tyler

The signs of a divide in this country, that we are actualy two nations, becomes greater every week it seems.

ISL

I believe the founders were always concerned about rushed laws on waves of public passion, whichever way they blow (left/right, up/down), and thankfully took steps to limit the possibility in our governing body.

This is not a cry for more gridlock, just measured short-term gridlock.

jr786

Well, tens of billions of dollars a year are spent on advertising, because bombarding people with visual and verbal messages actually works.

Violence isn't just measured in mass murder. It appears everywhere as mindless verbal aggression, even on blogs. If this kid was spending 10 hours a day playing ultra-realistic, violent computer games it might well have contributed to his last actions.

Or maybe you're right; it could never make a difference. I know all about his gun receipts - I'd just like know how he spent his time.

CK

It could have been under her pillow or in her bedside stand. Or he could have found the combo/key/keycode on his own, opened the safe and started blasting. If she were the paranoid delusional that she is painted then it is possible the gun was not in the safe. If she were not the caricature the press has painted then the guns were safed and the son was able to finesse the safe.
It is not proven that she volunteered or allowed him access; no more so than the Borden family volunteered Lizzie access to the axe.

turcopolier

CK

Yes, in the absence of information from the police any of that could be true. Nevertheless, on the basis of what is "showing" at present Occam's Razor as a principle would indicate that 1- She somehow did not secure firearms and ammunition from a madman with whom she lived 2- She did not act to prevent said madman from developing into a worse madman. Therefore I judge her to be a functional suicide and the enabler of the massacre. pl

turcopolier

jr786

"...his gun receipts" ??? He didn't buy any guns. pl

John Minnerath

Most of the people who commit mass murder die by their own hand after the deed is done. In this case the murderer killed his own mother, then went on to commit mass murder in a school finally ending by taking his own life.
The mother is being implicated as abetting the crime because she allowed her son access to firearms.
Was this family situation totally disfunctional? We'll never know. It's seen often that the closest family members seem unaware of just how serious mental problems may be.
In depth psychological examinations may have identified dangerous problems with this young man, but in protecting his civil rights, there would be severe limitations on what could be revealed and what could be done.

Society is placed in an impossible situation.
There needs to be serious rethinking about how both juveniles and adults who display aberrant behavior are dealt with.

no one

"Society is placed in an impossible situation.
There needs to be serious rethinking about how both juveniles and adults who display aberrant behavior are dealt with."

John, I've been thinking a lot lately about social ills and their remediation and I am coming to the conclusion that at some point we are going to have to accept that a. S___t happens and sometimes it kills us b. Death is inevitable any how and c. That trying to invent ways to deny a and b is, at some point, an impossible exercise that will drive us insane and cause us to miss out on the very life that we are trying to protect.

A mere one hundred years ago people lived with death much more openly. It was rather normal for even a well to do family to have lost a child to illness or a mother/wife to complications of childbirth. We've come a long way in a short time concerning the quality of life and that's great. However, the downside is that we are so pumped up by our successes that we are beginning to demand total security no matter how illusory and no matter the cost.

Irresponsible people, imbalanced people....they will always be with us and they will always manage to cause disasters. If there's an obvious viable fix that does not interfere with freedom and the pursuit of happiness, then, by all means, go for it. I'm just saying that we do need a reality check once in awhile.

I recognize that no politician is going to run on a platform of acceptable level of chaos in the streets. We need to be careful to not feed them opportunities to create grandiose, expensive and ultimately harmful social programming. That's our responsibility.

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