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16 January 2013

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Arun

Since the purpose of the Second Amendment is to make sure armed citizens keep the government at bay, perhaps a recounting of the instances where armed citizens did so, and preserved and expanded freedom might be useful.

a. Even the dumbest of liberals knows that government-raised-and-armed militias did a lot, so no need to mention them.

b. Major expansions of freedom took place when e.g., slaves were emancipated, women got the right to vote, desegregation occurred, and so on. The stellar contributions of private gun owners in the expansion of these freedoms, has so far, not been emphasized in the textbooks.

schwifty

Col,
your last is a point I have been waiting to see raised anywhere in the media coverage of this. Do people really believe that the AR gave Lanza some kind of tactical overmatch over classrooms full of small children that he otherwise would not have been able to achieve, if not for the color of the rifle?

I believe that Cuomo's NYC 7 round mag limit is, and will be, far more of a galvanizing catalyst for 2A advocates, than all of Obama's orders issued today combined, most of which were quite reasonable. The 7 round cap in contrast is indisputable, hard proof for the perennial slippery slope argument. First they'll come for your pistols, then they'll come for your revolvers.. I also don't believe that the administration will put any real legislative effort into this whatsoever, rightly calculating that the EOs will sufficiently fill in the public's "do something" box. Task force : EO :: Commission : Legislation, i.e. the vehicle by which politically-difficult policy prescriptions are tarpitted.

optimax

“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military.” William S. Burroughs

twv

Sir:
I recall that you voted for Obama, but "not his foreign policy."

So, I guess you voted for his domestic policies??

Fred

Actually the militia was with Washington when he put down a rebellion against the government (Shay's rebellion). They were also with Jackson when he defeated the British at New Orleans. We do have the stellar performance of the government troops in suppressing the citizens during the railroad strike of 1877, the labor strike in Coer d'Alene in 1877, Homestead Pennsylvania and plenty of others. But labor is now firmly in the 'liberal' camp, isn't it? Except for the gun owning members who didn't shoot anyone in Newton.

Will Reks

Maybe the other guy's foreign policy and domestic policy ideas were worse in comparison.

Tyler

The Left always denies the existance of a slippery slope, even though all evidence is to the contrary. One doesn't need to look further than the entire homosexual movement to see how its become a monstrosity pushing mental illness (gender dymorphia, pedophilia, homosexuality) as "genetic" based off of extemely shakey science, and telling us all how there's nothing wrong with that.

No different with guns. I already said it in previous posts - you agree on a ten round magazine, they demand a seven. The Second is not about f-ing duck hunting - something the Left and their media enablers refuse to acknowledge.

turcopolier

twv

I thought I made it clear that I thought the only thing worse than Obama would be Romney. pl

turcopolier

Arun

It is in the essence of the history of "militia" in what is now the United States that it springs from the people not from government. That is why the 2nd Amendment speaks of the necessity of the people being armed in order to maintain the vitality of the militia. James Madison authored the 2nd Amendment. He was also the author of Federalist 46 in which he specifically posits the need for an armed citizenry to add to the balancing forces against the monopoly of potential force by the federal government. You seem to believe that the federal government is the source of our liberties. This notion is alien to American political philosophy on its classic form. Your facetious nastiness is noted. pl

schwifty

Col,
have you seen this?

http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery

It seems to be a left wing response to the right wing meme, that the first gun control laws were enacted as an antebellum preemption of the possibility of freedmen owning guns. I don't know that either reading of history necessarily informs how we should interpret/implement the RKBA today, but I thought that it was worth mentioning, as I suspect it will see some play in the coming days.

twv

I didn't get that.
You still think Romney could have been any worse?

optimax

MLK was a gun advocate?

turcopolier

twv

I was quite clear about it. You may have mssed it in the heat of the campaign. Abraham Obama at least subscribes to the idea that unrich Americans should be cared for to some extent. Romney simply thought that a corporate PR campaign would do the trick so that he get on with the business of getting rid of SS, Medicare, etc. pl

optimax

I admit I was for the 10 round limit until I saw Cuomo sign into law the 7 round limit and started thinking about an incremental change ending in 0.

I do think requiring owners to secure their weapons with trigger locks or safes would have done more to educe gun crime and accidents, but I guess it wasn't authoritarian enough. Going with fines would be enough to encourage the lax owner to secure his firearms.

Then I would invest in storage units for firearms.

turcopolier

schwifty

In fact many large plantation establishments featured a "posse" of armed slaves under the leadership of the owner and overseers mustered for the purpose of defending the property from thieves and other malefactors. Slaves on farms like Mount Vernon had guns and were expected to hunt to supply some of their own subsistence as well as for the "big house." pl

optimax

Romney would have invaded Russia with a land army.

turcopolier

optimax

I am still waiting to find out how Lanza got access to his mother's weapons. She apparently had a gun safe. pl

optimax

Most of my union had guns. ?The railroad not being the safest place a lot of confreres carried at work--until 9/11, a-hole young managers, general american paranoa, Bush-lite and Obama dark roast.

Peter Brownlee

"Even the dumbest liberal" -- for example, perhaps, me -- might imagine that now is not the right moment to hope for a civil discussion on the proper place for guns (however you categorise them), their owners and users (or anything else, much) in the United States.

I have just seen the NRA's "Elitist hypocrite" ad ; perhaps "respect for the office" only applies when Republicans occupy it...

As for the conflation the "homosexual movement" (is "dysmorphia" the word towards which we are struggling?) and any support for BHO in his contrary position to Mao's quip about political power growing out of the barrel of a gun -- well, really! Perhaps this is an age of faith after all.

Anyone who thinks this is easy might like to consider David Cole's piece in the NYRB last year "Our Romance With Guns" -- http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/our-romance-guns/?pagination=false

Norm Ornstein and Tom Mann may well be right that it's even worse than it looks -- http://www.npr.org/2012/11/07/164609577/ornstein-could-a-second-term-mean-more-gridlock -- but it is about authority and individual liberty and much else besides.

And liberty for whom? As R. H. Tawney said in Equality (1931) "Freedom for the pike is death to the minnows" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._H._Tawney

Tawney is an interesting fellow -- and a Christian Socialist.

Let's hear it for the minnows.

And those who chose to be unarmed.

And those who have actually read the Sermon on the Mount.

Robb

To answer your question these added regulations would not have helped prevent the carnage and will not have much effect. The question that no one seems has answered is what, if anything, would have prevented this?

Stephanie

Perhaps not the ideal writer to quote in favor of gun rights:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Vollmer

"He initially claimed he accidentally shot Vollmer during a William Tell act, but changed his story, possibly after being coached by his Mexican attorney, Bernabé Jurado. The day after in court, Burroughs claimed he accidentally misfired the gun while trying to sell the weapon to an acquaintance."

schwifty

Col, if you keep pointing out that that historical data points don't necessarily reveal absolute truths, how will I know whether to root for red team or blue team on the teevee?

On another note, it has been a while since you have posted any range reviews. I am curious of your opinion on the PMR-30. I seem to remember that you posted about getting one, but I could be inventing that. I put the order in recently, figuring that it literally could be now or never.

Medicine Man

I'm curious about that myself. The personal responsibility angle of the tragedy is not talked about much.

turcopolier

schwifty

I got tired of waiting for one and cancelled my order. That was unfortunate. I would have liked to review one. I understand they sell well. pl

turcopolier

robb

No good choices. Some possibilities: 1 - Convert the US into a gun free zone like the UK. 2 - Indoctrinate owners with the idea that guns have to be kept in really secure continers, i.e., safes with combination locks. 3 - armed police at every school. ??? pl

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