Gun Control law - a Kentucky View

I received the message quoted below today from an old friend who owns a beef cattle farm in western Kentucky.  Unlike me, he is a hunter.  IMO his "news" and channeled opinion from his region.  He was originally from New York City. 

His message is indicative of all the reasons why "city boys" like BHO and Biden are going to accomplish nothing more than to  push different parts of the country farther apart than they already are.

The Washington Post today contains the following:

 "... working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources
said."  Washpost

-------------------------

None of these measures wuold have prevented the Newtown killings.  pl

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_story.html?hpid=z2

 

 Here is my Kentucky friend's message.

 

"Some of the stuff in the news today.   ...and 

I went to one sports store (Gander Mountain) yesterday and
found it crowded with gun buyers and lookers.Ammunition was fairly scarce and
getting pricey. Remington 30.06 was about the cheapest brand (180 gr) at
about a dollar a round at this store that is usually more expensive than the
competition anyway. 5.56 or .223 bulk ammo was gone. Handgun ammo needed a lot
of restocking....Surprised at the number of women at the handgun counter and
their pointed questions of the clerks. Not a bunch of yahoos either. Used gun
racks had lots of empty spaces. Beat up SKS that I once paid $86 for was priced
at $346. Was going to stop in another gun store but its small parking lot
was too crowded, if that means anything...

There is a gun show scheduled in Cave City (Kentucky) next
weekend. There is always one guy there who tries to peddle a surplus Spanish
Army bazooka (DEWAT). Would love to have it to put in my pick up truck rear
window, but too big and too expensive.

As I say, some excerpts from todays papers:  

MM 

 

OBAMA PLANS BROAD GUN-CONTROL

White
House weighs broad gun-control agenda in wake of Newtown shootings

By Philip
Rucker, Published: January 5

The White House is weighing a far broader and more comprehensive approach to curbing the nation’s gun violence than simply
reinstating an expired ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition, according
to multiple people involved in the administration’s discussions.

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously
considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require
universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of
weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and
stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the
sources said.......Washington Post 

 FLASHBACK: Obama: I Will NOT Take Your Guns Away:

When you all go home and you're talking to your buddies and you
say, ah 'He wants to take my gun away.' You've heard it here, I'm on television
so everybody knows it. I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people's
lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take
your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." 

Why push for gun control has stalled:

Support for stricter gun laws hasn’t jumped as fast or as far in
recent weeks as many liberals had hoped and expected. If you’re wondering why,
maybe the reason is the shakiness of the public’s trust in government itself.

After the horrific murders three weeks ago at Sandy Hook
Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, gun-control advocates confidently
predicted that a wave of revulsion would sweep the nation. We would, in the
popular argot, “hit the reset button,” beginning a fresh debate on new terms.

It hasn’t happened that way. In the USA Today-Gallup Poll taken
just a week after the shooting, when one would expect the largest emotional
effect, support for “more strict” gun control in the abstract was at 58%,
compared with 43% about a year earlier. On specifics, 51% opposed a ban on
private ownership of assault weapons. (There’s more support for posting armed
guards in schools than for limiting access to assault weapons.)

If Newtown hasn’t pushed the numbers much, why not?

One plausible explanation is a lack of trust in the people who
would be doing the regulating. The Gallup Organization has been measuring
Americans’ trust in their government since 1997. Last year, only half of
Americans said they generally trust the federal government to do the right
thing on domestic policy — a significant improvement over the 43% figure a year
earlier, but nowhere near the heights of trust one saw in President Bill
Clinton’s second term and President George W. Bush’s first.

“Trust us, we’ll protect you,” isn’t a very persuasive case to
make to the tens of millions of Americans who have guns in their homes. And
directing fury at gun owners for their lack of trust isn’t likely to increase
their faith in government.

Bloomberg View"

Comments

[Alba Etie]

We need to protect our 2nd amendment rights , full stop .

[Kevin]

With the 4th strictest gun control in the country, it is really hard to purchase and own a weapon in Connecticut. They have a state "assault weapons ban" that was enacted before the former 1994 weapons ban and had more restrictions with less loophole. They have gun registration and a waiting period while purchasig a gun too. Boy, it really did a great job at stopping gun violence! Lets fall down that slippery slope some more.

(Obama's home turf)
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/010213-639108-500-murders-rahm-emanuel-chicago-gun-ban.htm

[The Twisted Genius]

The Fredericksburg paper ran a story about a week after the Newtown shooting that mirrored your friend's observations. All the AR-16 looking weapons were selling out. The guy at Clark Brothers said this happened after every mass shooting. He expected a lot of the weapons to be returned in about a month after the hysteria dies down. That's part of the pattern, he said. I have no idea if that happens nationwide.

[Mark Logan]

TTG,

I can confirm it happened out here on the West Coast.

I have a WAG that the Republican lashing-out at the NRA was only the use of an opportunity to express a feeling of resentment over NRA heavy-handedness, which has been building up over the last several years. It's not a sentiment with the depth needed to actually pass or change any federal laws...as some obviously hoped it to be.

Waaay off topic, check out a PNW fixture at every kite exhibition of the last several decades showing off. He is 80 years old, deaf as a post, and makes everybody who has ever tried to precisely fly these sort of kites green with envy.

Three at once:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr9KrqN_lIg

[Tyler]

The part about weapons being returned sounds spurious to me tbh. You can bring them to the gun shops, but I don't see them simply giving you back your money because you make a panic purchase.

[Herb]

True, not one of those provisions would have prevented Newtown, but not one of those provisions would inmpact my owning or using the firearms I own and use, and not one of these hysterical gun hoarders is in touch with the reality that NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. My bet is not one of those provisions, as tepid as they are, will pass.

Beyond the politics, all of those Newtown children and adults, including the mother of the shooter herself, are dead now as a direct result of her ignorance, poor judgment and lack of education regarding rudimentary gun safety, including the proper use of gun lockers, trigger locks, and ammunition storage. He was able to kill more than a handful due to large magazines. But none of the facts are going to change anything at all.

"Gun control", whatever that is, is going to happen when and how gun owners, through the NRA, decide, not one minute sooner and not one measure greater. We will get a loosening on automatic weapon restrictions before another assault weapon ban.

[turcopolier]

Herb

All true. pl

[The Twisted Genius]

Clark Brothers displays quite a few used weapons for sale. I'm sure they buy back these month old weapons as used weapons rather than as full money back returns. Given the value of these things, I doubt the seller loses much money in the transaction. I think this particular gun shop also sells weapons on consignment, but I'm not positive on that.

[harry]

I saw a chart yesterday - which showed an international comparison of gun deaths relative to the number of firearms per capita. The relationship was very strong with the exception of Mexico, which was a striking outlier. Way more gun deaths than you would expect from the number of guns. Switzerland was another interesting example. Lots of guns. Lots of deaths by gun. Right on the regression line. Its not just an American thing. But more guns does tend to be correlated with more gun deaths.

Speaking personally, I would really rather there were no guns on the subway. It wouldnt cheer me up if there were good guns to offset the bad guns. Its just too small a space. It seems to me that the situation in rural areas is radically different to the situation in high population density urban areas. So there should probably be different rules set on a local basis.

Finally I would appreciate it if people who owned guns kept them out of the hands of mad people or bad people. So perhaps a licensing system with tort law penalties if your used gun ends up being used to kill 20 kids? Or if you sell guns to an unbalanced person? How this would work with wholesalers I really havnt thought through.

My opinion - for what little it is worth.

[ked]

across the South, there has been a similar run on guns & ammo. maybe we should ban purchase of combat weapons by easily-spooked lemmings.

[Tyler]

Apologies for not clarifying: I'm not saying that they won't take used guns. I'm saying that when someone buys an AR for 2K (the going rate for ARs around here) and they bring it back to the gunshop, they're going to take a haircut.

Now if they take the haircut and the gunshop owner buys it back for $500, then yeah I can see that happening. I was talking more people who buy and then expect a one for one exchange.

[Tyler]

I'm personally sick of speculators driving up prices and buying things just to try and resell them on craigslist or backpages for a profit.

Of course, there's too many gun shop owners who are willing to stoke fears to sell more black rifles.

[Medicine Man]

You really have to break down the firearm deaths by category: suicides, domestic violence, crime, accidents, and spree shootings. The only thing these have in common is that they involve firearms. They have different perpetrators, motives, and remedies - if one is inclined to remedy them. Lumping them all together is not productive.

[optimax]

Switzerland has a high rate of gun suicides and low rate of gun homicides.

[Medicine Man]

I'm inclined to agree.

As much as I hate to speak ill of the dead, I think a large portion of the blame for Newton lays with the mother of the killer. About the only "gun control" I'd advocate at this point is a greater emphasis on gun education. If I were POTUS I'd probably ask the NRA to design and administer it, with federal funding. For added irony, I'd take the money out of Homeland Security's budget.

[optimax]

Just like they did to Twinkies, the evil bastards.

[Rider]

Disagree. Any proposal which would have prevented Mrs. Lanza from collecting her arsenal of semiautomatic advanced tactical firearms would have denied Adam Lanza access to them. If her neighbors and law-abiding fellow citizens also had none, Adam would have been hard-pressed to lay his hands on them, regardless how many neighbors' homes he robbed before getting caught.

Feinstein's ban would obviously do the job. Obama's background checks with strengthened mental checks would also have stopped it. Hopefully, the background check will ask if anyone in the household has been prescribed any of a list of psychiatric drugs, to be followed up with the prescribing physician. Sorry, Mrs Lanza. No sale.

Three-fourths of guns used in America's 62 mass shootings since 1982 had been legally purchased. All illegal guns start out legal. A national database will help track them.

If Adam Lanza had only gone to the school with a couple of. .44s, it would have been bad but probably stoppable. The 30 rounds-in-15- seconds firearms in the Feinstein ban don't belong in civilian hands. They have the mass-lethality of artillery pieces at the time of the second amendment. I cannot accept the notion that the founders anticipated militiamen personally possessing their own artillery pieces.

Respectfully

[chandleg]

"The 30 rounds-in-15- seconds firearms in the Feinstein ban don't belong in civilian hands."

FM 3-22.9, Rifle Marksmanship, dated April 2003, cites the M16A1's maximum effective rate of fire in semi-automatic mode as 45-65 rounds per minute. The FM cites the maximum effective rate of fire for the M16A2/A3, M16A4, and M4 as 45 rounds per minute. The manual further defines maximum effective rate of fire as the highest rates of fire that can be maintained and still
achieve target hits.

The sustained rate of fire for all 4 rifles is 12-15 rounds per minute. The manual defines sustained rate of fire as a rate of fire that a weapon can continue to deliver for an indefinite
period without overheating.

"Any proposal which would have prevented Mrs. Lanza from collecting her arsenal of semiautomatic advanced tactical firearms would have denied Adam Lanza access to them."

What is an "advanced tactical firearm"? See pl's post regarding "The Ruger 10/22 and the Keltec SU 22." Wikipedia states, "The first successful design for a semi-automatic rifle is attributed to German-born gunsmith Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher, who unveiled the design in 1885, " and that "a few years later, American gunsmith John Moses Browning developed the first successful semi-automatic shotgun, the Browning Auto-5, which was first manufactured in 1902 by Fabrique Nationale de Herstal and sold in America under the Browning name." Many contemporary hunting rifles and shotguns are semi-automatic; can you state which parts of the cycle of operation are NOT automated in a semi-automatic firearm? Hence the distinction between semi-automatic and fully automatic. Many contemporary rifles and shotguns can be gussied up to look aggressive.

Last, you throw in a couple of "what ifs":
"If her neighbors and law-abiding fellow citizens also had none, Adam would have been hard-pressed to lay his hands on them, regardless how many neighbors' homes he robbed before getting caught.

"If Adam Lanza had only gone to the school with a couple of. .44s, it would have been bad but probably stoppable."

What if Adam Lanza had had a semi-automatic shotgun? Would he not have wreaked similar destruction? There's no end to some people's desire to make the world hazard-free. Consider the desire of doctors in the disarmed UK to regulate kitchen cutlery.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/british-doctors-call-for-ban-on-long-kitchen-knives-to-end-stabbings/

[John Minnerath]

The anti gun rank and file live in a never never land of ignorance and misinformation.
They simply will never understand that gun control will never end attacks the isolated deranged individual wreaks on others.
Let alone the fact that 99.999% of gun owning Americans are perfectly normal law abiding citizens.

[Fred]

Certainly the residents of the millions of households with legally obtained fire arms are not collectively guilty of these 62 crimes since 1982 to present?

"I cannot accept the notion that the founders anticipated militiamen personally possessing their own artillery pieces." I hope you can accept the fact that the founders did not accept the notion that a woman like Diane Feinstein could serve in public office at all since women were not even allowed to vote.

Perhaps if Adam Lanza’s mother had received proper training on the care and raising of a child before she got pregnant her son would not have turned out to be a cold blooded killer of children. Isn’t it about time we had Congress regulate that, too?

[Tyler]

More people died from hammer attacks than from rifles.

When will the Congress do something about the scourge of these assault hammers that have only one purpose: killing people!

[optimax]

The Founders never considered keeping field artillary pieces out of the hands of citizens, in fact, federal law only requires the normal background check to buy a muzzle-loading gun, including cannon or mortar, made before 1898, or facsimile thereof. If your state law permits you can buy this 1841 cannon which shoots 12 pound balls for $70,000, put it in your frontyard and aim it at the Section 8 rental across the street.

http://www.pbocorp.biz/forsale.php

[John Minnerath]

Man, I want one. Back in the 60's there was an outfit, Barny's Cannons, that sold a lot of models with a bore sized to a beer can.
I've got about 2000 yards of nice flat open ground out from the house. What fun it would be to lob projectiles with a big black powder front stuffer!

[Rider]

I stand corrected. I admit to having no knowledge about how long it takes to kill a room full of Kindergarteners. Give me your estimate then of how many minutes it takes a killer with a Bushmaster to fire three rounds each into a room full of them. I will use your estimate henceforth.

[Tyler]

If you want to go half in with me, optimax, I'll take out a TSP loan and we can make this happen.