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18 January 2013


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"the question is very settled about the US consititutional right to own guns" That is somewhat disengenuous since Heller allows modification of that right. pl


People having their children taken away,being thrown in jail, and sued for extortionary amounts of money for "racism" happens quite a bit in all three countries.

As they say, the Second defends the First.


Worth noting that the rates of gun ownership (% of households) here are higher than in Canada and far, far higher than in the UK or Australia before their stiffening of gun control in the last 20 years. Hence, politically, it would be far harder for the US to pass laws forbidding concealed carry or banning handguns.

Not sure why you included Canada in the "coming to take your guns" reply. In the UK, handgun ownership is next to impossible. In Canada, it's common, semi-autos included... but next to impossible to get a permit to carry it outside the home (unless you're an armored car guard or work outdoors in bear country).

Edward Amame

A complete ban on firearms is never going to happen. Heller came firmly down on the the side of the individual-rights interpretation. That is now settled. That is, or should be, the recognized starting point of any gun discussion.

But like Justice Antonin Scalia said, “Like most rights the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” The individual right protected in the Second Amendment is no more absolute than the individual right protected in the First. Free speech is not an absolute right, you'll need a permit to hold a First Amendment parade down Main St. Regulation of lawful exercises of speech have to be reasonable and have to pass very high degrees of scrutiny. The same standards apply with regards to gun ownership.

Charles I

What are you talking about.

There's been no seizure here. Some regulation, automatic weapons restrictions. A long gun registration program - now repealed. The mantra was "you are criminalizing rural voters". It was part of clever wedge politics.

You need to pass a training course before you can get a Firearms Acquisition Certificate, needed to be presented when buying arms. Just like your car. What an affront.

We have some storage, transport and urban discharge laws as well.

Its legal to use reasonable force, up to deadly force, subjectively determined, commensurate with the threat. Our courts regularly restrain prosecutorial over-reach and I will send you the cites if needed.

We have these kind of laws for motor vehicles too but they kill many, many many more than guns up here. No one ever claims they're coming to seize my car.

I don't give a rats ass about the UK.

Charles I

Hear hear. Ergo, my question becomes, what is "reasonable" regulation.

Charles I

Since we don't have a founding fathers gun history, government started civil war history, and an Amendment, I think that increasing rates of urbanization in a perhaps slightly more collectivist oriented polity may be as responsible for changing ownership stats as gun control per se.

I know many urban residents who inherited their parent's weapons and having no use for them, sold them or turned them in regardless of any legal context.

W/r/t "next to impossible to get a permit to carry it outside the home (unless you're an armored car guard or work outdoors in bear country".

Its true regarding handguns, which are heavily regulated, and further subject to constitutionally sound municipal regulation that can seem overly restrictive. But I see many many hunters along the roads up at my cottage walking around shooting loaded guns. We shot five racoons two summers ago perfectly legally. You're supposed to obey storage and handling regulation. I you're medically, criminally or otherwise unfit, you should be denied an FAC in the first place.

It does seem difficult to get a concealed handgun carry permit unless you're some kinda wannabe cop with connections. Case comes to mind is Former Toronto City Councillor Norm Gardener, who after he shot at some alleged robber from an upstairs window as I recall, subsequently got off an unsafe use charge during which his carry permit was revealed.

I haven't searched, but as a news junkie I am hard pressed to recall any story of anyone with a carry permit actually defending themselves or someone else from a shooter, or anything else for that matter.

What we have works. Perhaps we are ignorant regarding our liberty. I don't feel insecure.


Charles I

Sorry, but we are not you and many of us do not want to be. pl


Woman smothers boyfriend with breasts. Government needs to regulate the size of women's breasts before this gets out of hand.



I assume you say the same for the thousands who have died in urban gang gun battles as well.

The issue is why a man armed with weapons he did not own was able to shoot these children? Why was he allowed access to these weapons? Is this issue a national one or a very personal one? What happens when very personal issues cross over to harm the public and in this case, young children?

None of these issues are being answered because each side is shouting about "controlling" things versus taking action on issues about human behavior.

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