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24 January 2013

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turcopolier

Ael

How many were killed by IEDs while riding in a vehicle? pl

Fred

"Basically, the powers that be expect soldiers to be emotionless robots ..."

That's exactly correct. Casualties result in a salute to empty chair, a speech on veterans day and a new 'veterans for politician X' committee every election cycle. The very basic purpose of the armed forces the blog’s host has pointed out a number of times has been lost on the powers that be.

Violence in the service of the state? It’s an abstract notion for the politicians, with few exceptions.

kao_hsien_chih

I don't doubt that there are some women who would be very suited for the combat tasks even without changes to the current requirements, but their numbers will be doubtlessly extremely small. If they can do what it takes, and make it to 4-stars, more power to them.

But, what about those women who are not as suited? I do wonder if their paths to the 3-star rank (or below) would be actually made difficult, unless the requirements are relaxed. If women can serve in combat units, not having served in combat units will be an argument against promoting a woman, after all. Many will suffer because of the laws (or strong statistical tendencies) of biology, that is, unless the standards and requirements are relaxed, in the name of giving these women (who are not as naturally suited for combat tasks and doubtlessly will make up vast majority of women, even in the military).

So, for the sake of the tiny minority who are super gung-ho, we are in the process of creating a mess. Many women who otherwise wouldn't have to do things that they are not well suited for will be dragged into difficult situations if they want to "make it" in in the military, and, in order to accommodate them, standards and requirements will have to be mangled, with potentially dire consequences. I don't think if this what "progress" really means.

JfM

A sad day, one that opens combat arms to women. Not because of the women; there are women-many women-who can ‘cut the mustard’ & be a functioning 11B. Rather it’s about what it does to the unit. The Israelis have/had (?) a combat option for women; the Caracal Battalion, a modified operational light infantry manned by well over 50 percent female soldiers. It seems to work for the Israelis, but remember the Israelis fight from home…they’re not deployed thousands of miles away. The Soviets, during the hardest days of WW2 when the Nazis were pushing them against the wall, used females in front line units. They quickly walked away from that model when they could. As a CIB wearing Army retiree, I know the reality of life in the woods; squatting between a pair of boots five feet from your fighting position for your fellow squad mates to see ain't the most graceful of acts. It’s a largely de-humanizing experience calling forth our most harsh instinct. I don’t want my son living it (although as an enlisted Marine mortar man, he did) and I sure as hell don’t want my daughter doing it!

oofda

Colonel,
I don't think Canada deployed women in Afghanistanas infantry, but the first Canadian female soldier to die there was Capt Nichola Goddard, who was serving as a forward observer with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, one of the three active duty infantry regiments. Her parent unit was the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery. Two other Canadian women soldiers were killed in Afghanistan, one a medic and another was a Trooper in an armored unit.

oofda

One of the women,Captain Nichola Goddard, was an artillery officer serving as a forward observor with an infantry regiment- the Princess Pats. Of the other two, one was a medic and the other a Trooper in an armored unit.

turcopolier

oofda

Bless them. They did their duty, but none were actually in an infantry unit and how were they killed. pl

Tigershark

Col.,

If the size of the US armed forces, shrink, as nearly all have predicted or anticipate, perhaps this is not an issue. Smaller armed forces, fewer openings, fewer volunteers, etc. Perhaps this is only an issue for female West Point grads, who want to move up the command ranks.

turcopolier

tigershark

IMO a smaller force will make the issue bigger not smaller. Women officers will be a protected class and a certain number of battalion and brigade slots will be set aside forthem. The same thing is true now for various categories of minorities. BTW, there is no noticeable difference in the ambition of academy and non-academy grads. ABTW I was twice selected by national boards for brigade command so this is not "sour grapes." pl

Jose

http://www.dami.army.pentagon.mil/docs/Legere,%20LTG%20Mary%20A.%20Apr12.pdf

Mike Ross

"DoD's new policy of opening all combat arms specialties to women will enable some few future women officers to be four star generals. Women are already three star generals within the existing policy."

"GEN Ann Dunwoody, USA
Gen Janet Wolfenbarger, USAF"

Some of the posters here missed my point.

Military policy before today did not prevent women from reaching four stars. There have been two, so far.

Fred

Jose, this just shows lots of time in MI, which is not infantry. Both of my younger sisters were enlisted and did 4-6 years in MI units, both made spec 5/6 before their EOS, neither were infantry. That was the older brother, A company, 1/504 ABN. There's a world of difference as the army vets keep trying to point out.

BTW I was on submarines, before the women were assigned. There were enough problems with women in nuclear engineering fields because they couldn't get sea duty assignments and had to be re-assigned immediately on reporting a pregnancy. That sure played hell with shore rotations for male service members in the same job classification. I can only imagine the billeting problems now with a nuclear fleet half the size it used to be. But then we didn’t have to live in a fox hole, get rained on etc. Fires and flooding, well that did happen a couple of times, not exactly happy memories those.

Neil Richardson

Tyler:

The Marine Corps opened up the Infantry Officers Course to women last year(with plans of admitting up to 100, but they would not have been designated infantry MOS upon completion). Two signed up and neither completed the course. This was supposed to be a feasibility experiment.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/10/marine-corps-womem-infantry-officers-course-101512/

Obviously Panetta and the JCS were ordered to do this by the WH. It's just disgraceful. Col.Lang is right. The new group will be a protected class within the Army.

IIRC there was a study of USMA cadets' APFT scores done back in 1995. Only about 3% of female cadets scored around the mean of male cadets.

turcopolier

Mike Ross

Everyone here got your point including me. IMO the promotion of these two women demonstrates that the argument that inability to serve in the Combat Arms blocked promotion is simply wrong. pl

Alba Etie

Tyler
Having never served in the military much less combat, and valuing your opinion as one who has - what has the impact of Don't Ask Don't Tell being suspended had on the Military ? Are gays a hindrance to unit cohesion & readiness ?

turcopolier

Jose

Legere is a prime example of a woman officer staying in a track where she could be of great value. pl

Jim Ticehurst

In My Opinion..and analysis..Welcome to Obama's New World Order, and for those who didn't pay attention to his entire Background the first time He got elected by the Media.. ..His Radical Mother and others in Hawaii....His education Indonesia.. On to California and to NY and Chicago with all its Gangster and Racical Elements.. and Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Obama's other Mentors..He is a DEDICATED Indoctrinated Educated..Enabled Zealot...and is using his Power to the FULLEST to Radically Advance all the Doctrines of the Liberation Theology that have formed his Persona.He is supporting "Liberating" Islamist from Egypt to Lubia...and the Middle East..He see's them as Oppressed by Corrput Dictators who shakes hands with Western Leaders.. .and His Politics..His Indoctrinated Contempt for Our British Founding Fathers and thier System...Obama is totally into Far Left LIBERATION Theology..He has undermined all Traditional Values and Standards in to United States, has "Fundamentally " Changed Our Government as Promised, Is Fundamentally changing Our Military..is Creating a Finacially overburdened Central Government that now employs more people that the entire population in 1776..His whole Inaugeration was about Gay Rights, with Open Connections to Cuba.. that being the backgrounds of both the Gay Cuban Poet and Pro Gay Cuban Pastor who gave the Benediction..A Nod toward Castro or Che..? Viva La Marxist Revolution..? So..Its a Coincidence the USA has lost its World Power Influence ..Is looking Weaker, and Financially unstable, and Is Having the Articles of its Constitution attacked by Radical Liberals..until all its Rights are Altered or Diminished by Legislative and Judicial Actions..Obama now has Four More Years of Power..Many More Radical and Extreme Policys..like we are Rapidly seeing Develope.. ..with Biden to be His Enforcer...So Turn in any Guns they want...keep your 12 Gauge and One box of shells..Get registered and your National ID Card..and say to yourself.."Peace at Last..Peace at Last"..Thank you Dear Leader ..foir Liberating the Mass's..Let them all come to America..We are The World.. We are ONE..

turcopolier

jim ticehurst

I regret not having abstained from voting for anyone for president. pl

Franklin

http://afghanistan.nationalpost.com/panjwaii-defies-canadas-best-efforts/

The article refers to a Canadian infantry company commander who is female.

Tyler

I knew a single homosexual - a Staff Sergeant - in the Infantry who was a top notch soldier and leader of men. I only knew because I had run into him at a bar in Seward, Alaska (a bit away from Anchorage) holding hands with another man. He saw me finish my beer and bug the fuck out after making eye contact, and approached me asking me if there was going to be a problem. I told him there wasn't, and apparently the First Sergeant already knew and didn't have an issue with it.

What that anecdote illustrates is that DADT was working fine. What the cultural marxists always wanted to do was rub the faces of the (majority white, Southern, conservative) infantry in it and say nyah nyah nyah look what we did. That's what this move is about as well. "Nyah nyah, you fight our wars, you die for us, you get your legs and arms and balls blown off, but we don't give a FUCK what you think so don't start getting uppity."

So some guy can't openly bring his boyfriend back to the barracks? SO WHAT? I kicked plenty of females out of the barracks when I was charge of quarters. Now if I did it I'd have to wonder if the leftist inquisitors were going to swoop down on my head for "homophobia" because some dude's boyfriend can't handle his beer and makes a pass at another soldier.

The people who made this decision have no idea what "cohesion" is about, what makes a combat infantry unit function effectively. They did it to appeal to 2% of the wider population, and fuck the people dying on the ground. What happens when Captain Homosexual tells his RTO "If you want that signature on your Warrant Officer packet, I need something from you?" What happens with the fraternization (the unspoken 800lbs gorilla in the room in mixed gender units) when a squad leader is banging his lowest ranking private?

All these are issues with mixed gender units as well, which is why DADT, single gender units worked best. However we're expected to shut down our frontal lobe and let our Sparkly Feeling receptors take over whenever someone mentions the words "diversity" and "equality", and not think of the very real world people deal in.

This is all repetitive to some of you I'm sure, but I'll say it again: Ivory tower elitists continuing to make decisions that effect those who have no say in its implementation.

Jackie

Dad told us he got saltpeter during WWII and it didn't take effect for decades. I'm not sure it works or if he was blowing smoke.

Tyler

The snapback from this buildup is going to make the Glorious Revolution look like a slapfight between nerds at a sci fi convention.

 Ishmael Zechariah

Dear Col. Lang,

If you were commanding single-gender light infantry against co-ed forces, would you give any additional instructions to your fire teams about identifying/targeting females, say in an ambush?

Ishmael Zechariah

P.s: I voted for Gary Johnson. Could not stand either of the two mainline candidates.

turcopolier

IZ

It's really not a luxury that you have. You shoot everyone. pl

Jose

I agree with everything you said, even if it offends the politically correct crowd.


Here is another one:

http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

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