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17 December 2012

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agin' cajun

Sounds a bit like certain areas in the U.S. If the Fundies of all flavors representing Christianity had their way, this country would be a Theocracy. Just my personal observation and two cents. I would offer the following as Citation. Recently passed State laws and laws forwarded along Religious lines in the U.S. House. Go to a few Fundie web sites and read their published works. In addition I would recommend "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phillips. I'll go out on a limb and say that a significant percentage of Coptic's would agree with ruling from the Middle Ages, as long as it's their Holy Book used as the template.
Specific to Egypt, it breaks my heart to see any people subjugated to any Theocracy because in my opinion it's just an older form of Mass Mind Control. Once in place, a Theocracy turns everyone else into "the others" and diminishes such people to "less than". I agree that if I were one soon to be defined as "the other" in Egypt, I would be inclined to beat feet towards the border, post-haste. However, the geography does not leave many options for people not financially able to hop a flight. The thinking behind Jefferson's letters concerning the Baptist in Conn. come to mind.

Bababk Makkinejad

They voted for an Islamic government.

They voted for a form of representative government based on Islam.

Years ago, in this forum, I argued that Muslim polities cannot be secular (excepting with bayonets).

And the population craves Islamic piety.

This is not Middle Ages; the ideas of elections, separation of powers, military subject to civilian rule, representative government have been accepted and grafted - albeit inorganically - to the ideas of Islam.

And Middle Ages were not Dark Ages in Europe; read Clagett on history of the science of mechanics in the Middle Ages, Glison on Medieval Philosophy, and Strayer on the Medieval Origins of the Modern State.

I agree that public social space for Europeanized Muslims has shrunk and will continue to shrink.

The key item for me, however, is the extent to which meaningful elections and orderly changes of government takes place in Egypt.

For that, we have to wait and see and hope for the best.

William R. Cumming

What foreign nation-state has the most influence on Egypt currently? If any and why? For better or worse?

trooper

I hope the Russians will start arming the Copts. PC West will not dare. I miss the 19th Century.

walrus

An Islamist state in control of the Suez Canal. Haven't we been through something like this before?

WTF were those idiots in Washington thinking?

Col. Lang, how difficult would it be for Israel, with out assistance, to retake the Sinai and a Twenty mile buffer to the West of the canal?

turcopolier

walrus

I don't think they are up to big ground operations any longer. they would rather concentrate on HB rockets and the like. pl

Bababk Makkinejad

And pray tell me where would these Arab Christians - these "Darkies" - go?

To USA?

To Russia?

Or to the EU states?

Bababk Makkinejad

I do not think it is a big deal that an "Islamist" government control the Suez Canal; anymore than when Nasser was in power.

So Israelis take over Sinai; and then what?

Bababk Makkinejad

USA

trooper

I was thinking coup. Gotta think big. It worked for the Alawites for decades. And the Mughals. And the criollos in Bolivia. Etc. Russians just need to get them the right weapons, training can be done in Cyprus.

Will

Irak-Afghanistan-Lebanon redux. they will need another Operation Nickel Grass to save their axxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass

AntoineArdonne

They voted themselves back into the middle ages whereas we bomb them back into the middle ages.

rick

The one word that I am astounded that I have not heard in relation to the development of the Arab Spring is "Algeria".

If I recall, and it was a while ago and I was not paying such close attention, in the heady days of the end of the cold war, Algeria had elections and the Islamists won big, I believe with a big split between city and countryside similar to that seen in Egypt, but more pronounced.

I do remember the phrase "Afghan Arabs" popping up back then...what ever happened with those guys??(irony)

PL, from your comment about the army, it sounds as if you do not believe that the army will side with the "city" against the "beards" in any potential conflict like they did in Algeria, if i recall correctly. Do you see any possibilty of civil conflict in Egypt if the army stays firmly with the government? It seems like the funders of conflicts in that area would not be supportive of people fighting against an Islamist government.

sorry to come so late to the thread...

rick

I guess in Algeria, the govt that held the election nullified them and called on the army to fight the Islamists, which is a different situation than that in Egypt today, where the govt is the Islamists.

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