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21 December 2012

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declining demographic

Columbine had armed guards. Fact.

Jim Ticehurst

Thanks for staying on this Topic,Pat....
I listened to the Speech by NRA Executive ..VP..Wayne LaPierre this morning...I though His Points, and Comments were Appropiate and Timely..I think that You and Clifford Kiracofe have made the most Valid and Realistic Comments on this Topic.
.The Fact being...There have been On going Political and Social Efforts to Undermine Our Constitution and Our Soical Values..Standards..Conduct..Authority and Accountability through EXTREME Liberal Activism since I first noticed ..as a Law Enforcement Officer..How the Drug and Music Culture changed America in the 1960s..That was followed by many Radical changes that Undermined the Authority of Parents, Our Schools Systems. The Court Systems and Law Enforcement..and continued the Introduction of Many other Dangerous Drugs ,Illegal and Pharmaceutical, Wide Spread Crime and Violence, and the Doping Up and Dummying Down of almost everyone in America, from Senior Citizens, to Teens to Adolescents...and Allowing Our Government to become Corrupt,Self Serving...and selling Out to Extreme Politics and Special Interest..The Truth is...We are a Very Sick..Nation...with No Control of Our Government Officals...All these Mass Killers weere on Someones Radar, Attracting Attention and in Need of Intervention...Our Politicians have failed to Provide any Responsible Solutions that Will STOP This Social decay..The Only Gun Regulations I support are stopping The Unregulated PRIVATE Sales at Gun Shows..otherwise, whatthe NRA said today..was closer to the TRUTH...

walter

Where would Jesus stand on this issue? My guess he would favor putting more effort into creating peace and love in our society. To what extent was this kid Adam Lanza loved by his peers? his family? society? My guess is that if he had written a suicide note it might have pointed to feeling alienated, alone, misunderstood, hurt, angry.

Helping the Adam Lanzas of the world is where we need to put our efforts

The Twisted Genius

I've already seen responses calling Lapierre's statement unhinged and insulting. So much for responsible dialog. The NRA proposals are certainly worthy of consideration. In my opinion they would be much more effective than simply declaring schools, theaters and such to be no gun zones. And it would be a much better use of homeland security grants. I just read that Virginia has 38 million left to spend. Our state legislature just proposed providing funding for school security programs.

I also like the response to that poor old bastard's losing his pistol in the theater. He lost his concealed carry permit and is charged with reckless endangerment. Owning and carrying firearms is our constitutional right. Exercising that right cannot be treated frivolously. I'd also like to see legislatures stop drop their "do as I say, not as I do" attitude about carrying weapons in legislative buildings. What the hell makes them so precious?

Lars

I have some doubts that the public will consider just more guns an acceptable solution. My preference would be licensing for owning and using guns, with levels for different type of guns. That way, you do not have to ban any guns.

Jose

+1

wcw

The proposal at hand strikes me as awful policy. Do you really want to militarize the school experience for the entire nation from preschool on up? I can't imagine that is healthy policy for anything short of a police state.

Police states are safe, but you might not like growing up in one.

Edward Amame

Nothing new here. I believe LaPierre suggested something like his armed guard idea after the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings.

Anti-gun fanatics will never be satisfied because a gun ban is unconstitutional. Most Americans aren't interested in a total ban anyway, but do generally support background checks (including requiring private sellers to run potential buyers through them) and/or some sort of restrictions on so-called "assault weapons." I understand that the term "assault weapons" is too vague and what we are probably actually talking about is regulating magazines and ammunition.

But since the term "anti-gun fanatic" has been used, it's only fair to point out that there's another side to that coin. That there are "gun fanatics" too.

turcopolier

wcw

Get a grip. do you prefer dead kids? pl

turcopolier

declining etc

So what? Do you think everything is either 100% effective or a total failure? pl

wcw

Wpl, yes. I prefer my son to grow up in this country, where Columbine and Sandy Hook could and did occur, to growing up in the old East Germany, where they could not and did not.

I don't mind gun ownership any more than I mind car ownership. Both kill about thirty thousand a year, about 100 per 100,000, quite a death rate. Those deaths are the price of those freedoms, and I am willing to pay them.

declining demographic

So what? Your being purposely obtuse as ever when it comes to your 'culture.'

Clifford Kiracofe

"Del. Robert G. Marshall is proposing a bill that would require some teachers or other school staff to carry concealed weapons in schools.

Marshall (R-Prince William) requested that the bill be drafted in response to the mass shooting last week at a Connecticut elementary school.

...Gov. McDonnell (R) said this week that there should be a discussion about whether school staff should be allowed to carry concealed weapons to protect children against intruders. "
....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-politics/va-bill-would-order-schools-to-arm-teachers/2012/12/19/d06ec7ae-49d1-11e2-b6f0-e851e741d196_story.html

Logical and good to see officials here in Virginia stepping forward on this to protect our public chools and students. The VA Tech tragedy is not forgotten in our area.

"Scale of defeat" ... yes. Americans are in some ways patient and slow to anger. If the "liberals" and whomever wish to make Second Amendment rights a major political issue they very well may reap the whirlwind. And it will then gather still more after that.

Does Hillary or do any Dem pres candidates think they will win in 2016 as it is? Meanwhile there are 2013 state and local elections coming up. It will be a very interesting year from this standpoint as the Second Amendment issue now becomes more salient politically.

jerseycityjoan

Well we have kids getting shot every day, but almost all the shootings occur off school property.

How can focusing on schools do much to solve the problem?

Many kids are shot by loaded guns that are left around their houses or somebody else's house, sometimes "hidden" and sometimes not.

Many are also shot by people that they know or people who live in the immediate neighborhood.

If we could prevent 100% of school shootings, the number of kids shot by guns every year would remain about the same, if nothing else changed.

jerseycityjoan

I saw the press conference.

While I did not disagree with all the points made, what I saw was the NRA attempting to hold on to its "ownership" of the gun issue in America.

It went ahead and defined the problem for us and it went ahead and made arrangements to provide the solutions it thought were best.

LaPierre spent much of his time assigning blame and bad motives to various parties. He portrayed the NRA as America's righteous rescuer and protector.

All in all it was quite something to see and listen to, the protesters adding surprise and drama to the performance.

I am sure that people who agree with what was said will be very happy and the NRA will get a huge surge of donations to carry out their self-appointed mission.

I wonder how many takers they will really have, and how many school districts will carry out the NRA's free school security plans over time. I also wonder how many people LaPierre alienated and offended. Like most issues in America, I think this is one where the majority of the people are in the middle. I don't think the middle of America really wants the NRA in charge of school security. We'll see.

turcopolier

JCJ

you saw what you wanted to see. pl

turcopolier

JCJ

I guess "Jersey City" says it all. Your assertions about child accidents with guns are incorrect. such accidents are at an all time low. You just want to confiscate guns. Admit it. pl

Medicine Man

Given their mandate, I'm not sure what else the NRA could have done. Some acknowledgement that mass murderers are much more effective when armed with the weapons they advocate would be nice but -- as people here have pointed out -- that admission doesn't lead to any practical course of action that also respects the rights of gun owners. Thus the public is left with purely defensive strategies; more armed guards, more surveillance and enforcement bureaucracy.

The cultural angle of this tragedy is also interesting. It is hard not to wonder at the effects of violent media on our societies. After all guns are merely the instrument, people with damaged psyches are the perpetrators. Personally, I find it hard to trust Lapierre's honesty on this point. It is naturally quite convenient to point the finger away from oneself at times like this but it seems to me that the entertainment media and the NRA have a good fair-weather friendship. There is much that Hollywood produces that glorifies gun use and little they peddle that promotes responsibility. During quiet times this doesn't seem to be much of a problem for the NRA.

I wouldn't regard it as a bad thing if this were the beginning of a sustained push back from the NRA on the entertainment media's "contributions" to gun culture in the US, but I have my doubts about how sustained this will be. Once the crisis has passed, I suspect we'll be back to business as usual.

turcopolier

lars

your solution is inherently elitist and will prevent many ordinary people from owning guns, but that's the idea, right? pl

jerseycityjoan

No. I do not want that.

I don't know why you think that, unless you assume my concern about violence in America means that I want guns confiscated.

And if I did, I certainly realize that it would never happen in my lifetime.

In any case, if there's one or two single things we can do to greatly reduce violence in America, I don't have any idea what they might be.

declining demographic

"Even John Lott Jr, the author of More Guns Less Crime and a Fox News columnist, was dismissive:

@scubarton @justinwolfers Identifiable guards are of very limited use in these cases.They will be the first person killed.Costly & not effec
— John R Lott Jr. (@JohnRLottJr) December 21, 2012"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/21/nra-armed-guards-schools

turcopolier

declining

That is his opinion, not mine. If that is true let us save a lot of money in the US by not guarding anything. pl

turcopolier

JCJ

You cannot "jump" from gun ownership, to violence in America to school shootings unless you can show some connection. This kid was mad. pl

Laura Wilson

Sounds like a third world country to me...would you really rather have armed men in front of every school (and then store, movie theatre, mall, opera house, etc.) than than close gun shows loopholes and have comprehensive background checks. Really?

Medicine Man

Dear TTG: Re -- "no gun zones"

In the early 90s my home city, Vancouver, BC, was a nuclear weapons free zone. I assume that this means in the event of a nuclear exchange between the US and USSR we would have been perfectly safe.

Ok, sorry, just a little black humor.

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