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06 December 2012

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jdgalvez

Thanks! That makes sense. What a mess.

Jake

When we screw things up we really auger then in... What I am really missing here, so some please educate me is, how does any of this propel or protect our ME interests?

Jake

I was watching CNN tonight and was just saddened by how folk like Fran Townsen analyized the so-called WMD threat by sourcing the NYT. Then saying that the USG was really trying to ascertain the Syrian chemical theat. Shit if we by now don't understand that threat by now then we are in hurting shape. It also kills me that we lump chemical weapons along with gernades as WMDs. I am an old school boy. The only WMD I know still splits atoms...

Altoid

For a while now Scott Pelley on CBS has been referring to Assad as "the dictator." That was the routine epithet for Saddam Hussein and can't be a coincidence.

But the real tipoff I'm waiting for is stories about infants in incubators. When that surfaces (again) we'll know for sure it's a go.

steve g

The "leading from behind" accusation mantra
from the Repubs during the election has
accelerated the neo-cons, neo-Wilsonians
etc. wishes to intervene in every world-wide
conflict except the Palestinian-Israeli
situation. What will it take to lessen the
militarisam? A global financial crash? BHO
should shelve that Nobel Peace prize or
perhaps return it. Could recommend another
place to put it but I wont be that crass. One
might assume the world views us as the collective
fools we appear to be.

Babak Makkinejad

Again, I think you are reading too much into this.

Hormone-crazed young men all over the world are prone to the call of adventure, including war.

How many young men went to Spain to fight for "The Republic" from US?

Or UK?

Sorry lot of gullibale Protestant boys - I suppose waging a war against the "Papists".

And how many young men from US went to fight Gemany in 1939?

And in the recent wars of US in Indochina and in Iraq, how many Canadians were there fighting for a cause that was not theirs?

bth

Perhaps another question might be asked: If Assad falls, who gets the CB weapons?

FB Ali

I find Harper's explication of the reasons for Israel's participation in this anti-Syrian cabal very persuasive. It is likely that many in Israel (eg, ultras like Lieberman & Co) also believe that an anarchic Syria is better for Israel than a powerful potential opponent in Assad's Syria.

A Syria dominated by Sunni jihadi militias will also cause Lebanon's Shia Hizbullah to face in two directions, thus lessening its threat to Israel.

The most powerful opponent of Sunni/AQ jihadism is Iran. By destroying it the West will exponentially increase the power of these jihadis. What crazy calculus underlies these policies?

Perhaps the old saying is true: Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad!

kao_hsien_chih

It seems to be somewhat the repeat of how Israel originally backed precursors of Hamas, doesn't it? It really does seem that Israel tends to consider Sunni religious extremists more tolerable than secularists, and as someone pointed out, international Sunni Jihadists (not counting Hamas, obviously) haven't done anything against Israel. I would, however, also much appreciate comments from those who are more enlightened and experienced on these matters.

Paul Escobar

Harper,

Excellent. Thank you for sharing.

Bill H

Pelley has also been saying that "the people of Syria began a revolution against the Assad dictatorship." True, except for, what, about 50% of the people, who supported him?

FkDahl

From the perspective of Israeli politicians I see an advantage of being surrounded by technologically inferior
"Bantustans" full of Salafists, that will keep firing the odd rocket, thereby giving a perfect excuse for continued expansion of the settlements, and full annexation of the Golan heights. No peace can ever be signed with them, see?! Against a civilized and technologically advanced nation (such as Iran) this cannot be done.
Israeli military probably have a less optimistic view of this, they are, after all, the ones that will be shot at and take the blame for any Israeli civilian casualties.
Perhaps I am too cynical?

walrus

Is it possible that Saudi Arabia is greasing the skids under Assad as a way of leaving Iran exposed and friendless?

That would impy that the Saudi Royal Family view Iran as greater danger to them ten Al Qaeeda wouldn't it?

If that was the case, then the Saudis must have some idea that there is some way that NATO/Saudi/ Brotherhood forces can neutralise/euthanise the jihadist/Al Qaeeda fighters afterwards?

Surely all of us know by now the danger of leaving these fanatics sitting around when the job is finished with nothing to do?

Clifford Kiracofe

Perhaps you are not eading enough into it. Are you suggesting excuses for the terrorists relate to their biological functions?

Clifford Kiracofe

While we are considering deja vu, on the topic of wartime lies:

"Are the ideas of the conservative political philosopher Leo Strauss a shaping influence on the Bush administration’s world outlook? Danny Postel interviews Shadia Drury – a leading scholarly critic of Strauss – and asks her about the connection between Plato’s dialogues, secrets and lies, and the United States-led war in Iraq..."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5010.htm

Clifford Kiracofe

"The end of the Assad regime would be a great gain for the United States. The regime is a bloody dictatorship that is host to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, Iran's only Arab ally, the route through which Iran arms Hezbollah, and a permanent threat to Lebanon's sovereignty and internal peace...."
http://www.cfr.org/syria/american-options-syria/p26226

Elliot Abrams' paper for the influential Council on Foreign Relations last year.


For the latest Brookings/Qatar paper on what the US should do per Syria:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Papers/2012/10/18%20losing%20syria%20shaikh/Shaikh%20Losing%20Syria%20english.pdf?_lang=en


An Israeli analysis of Syrian situation from Herzliya-Lauder School:
http://www.herzliyaconference.org/_Uploads/2590Bashars.pdf


Clifford Kiracofe

Yes.

An anarchic Syria and region gives the Israelis more opportunity to tell Americans how valuable they are as a strategic ally and bastion of "democracy." This line of propaganda is well received in Washington and provides justification for various forms of aid to Israel including the billions for "defense."

Bill H

Well, in this country if you try to set off a bomb that would have dropped a single bridge you are charged with "attempting to deploy weapons of mass destruction." Having evaluated the various charges brought by the USDOJ, I have decided that the critical number is eight; attempting to kill more than eight people constitutes "mass destruction."

The beaver

Jake

Just have to be reminded of this :

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

The beaver

http://www.scribd.com/doc/108893509/BrookingsSyria0315-Syria-Saban

Are the cognoscenti ( insert sarcasm) like S.Powers at Foggy Bottom and may be the same ilk across the Potomac following the above memo à la lettre?

Looks like it.
Are some of these women in Obama's administration warmongers or psychopaths? makes one wonders!

The beaver

CK

S Walt has 2 articles on the Saudi/Qatar/GCC versus Iran and here is one:
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/12/05/oil_iran_and_stability_in_the_gulf

This reflects what I have posted up-posts wrt Brookings Institute:
1. "Which path to Persia"
and
2. "Saving Syria: Assessing Optionsor Regime" Change

Babak Makkinejad

I am not excusing anyone, just that this is not a recent phenomenon.

I wonder what Franco thought of the members of Abraham Lincoln Brigade; Heminyway, Gary Cooper, and all that.

Babak Makkinejad

Syria is not the only Iranin friend; so is Iraq, and partly Lebanon.

And then there is the friendly Christian state of Armenia - eventhough Western Armenian Diaspora is against Iran.

Charles I

Well, what would those interests be?

PS

So how long until Israel has to invade Syria in the same way it invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 to stop PLO attacks on Israel. It wouldn't necessarily be Palestinians in this case but any random Islamist group that decides to poke Israel.

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