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15 December 2012

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Bobo

The 16 to 25 age transition today is not what it was when you and I went through it. There are too many electronic distractions that are leaving too many young people at the wayside. As to Mr. Lanza this is a Mental Health problem that we are not dealing with as there are many Mentally Impaired young people in our neighborhoods, we never see, tearing families apart as Mothers are left trying to improve the situation. I know of two such situations in my neighborhood and I need to get off my rear end and see how I can help the situation or at least give a neighbor some rest or time to think clearly. Gun Control is not worth our time or effort but helping your neighbor is.

This just reaches too deep within us to just walk on by.

Al Arabist

Your final paragraph hit the mark. Autism disorders- common among males- show up in groups, exactly where our pricey and outdated psychiatric model does NOT. This is grass roots DIY stuff, too important to be left to professionals and monetized. We have all the social tools to handle this already, just need to take back family/neighborhood/school/church/elks and kiwanas and all other places where people come together and relate.

Cal

This particular case doesn't sound a matter of gun control to me...it sounds like a "parent failure". This boy was 'strange', had sever social adjustment problems,....his mother knew that. Introducing him to guns as a hobby was not a smart way to 'spend time with him or interact with him imo. And his mother being a teacher wasn't aware of the many incidents like this where a distrubed young person went on a killing spree? Where was this woman's mind????

William R. Cumming

Thanks Richard for your insights and they ring true to me!

Edward Amame

This website is usually so clear-eyed and no BS. Then events like this happen and the baloney starts raining down.

I would highly recommend 2 articles, both from the WAPO Wonkblog. The first is "Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

The second is "A history of the Second Amendment in two paintings." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/15/a-history-of-the-second-amendment-in-two-paintings/

Here's my take. There is a social cost to allowing recreational gun ownership, and the families and friends of shooting victims are all paying the price.

J

Colonel,

Here in okieland just this past week a 3 year old toddler in Logan county was killed at a neighbors whom the parent/parents were visiting. The report said that the fatal wound was self-inflicted. A firearm not properly stored.

Charles I

TTG:

"it takes competent professional help to have any chance at a good outcome. An effective program to protect our children and young adults and to educate us all would be skilled manpower intensive and expensive. To address this challenge we would need a "we choose the moon" national effort. I don't think our present society is up to the task and our politicians aren't even close to being up to this task."

Of course they're not. IMHO the way to tackle some of this is to explicitly start teaching the concepts of Briggs-Meyers and emotional intelligence from kindergarten up. But that'd be brainwashing, in a way religious and civil instruction is never considered to be. If one can't rationally discuss and teach sex ed in the 21st century, its hopeless to imagine temporal tinkering of this kind with the tiny souls while they are still reachable.

Michael Apted is up to 56 up in his Up series of movies. Each 56 year old is just about where one could easily predict from the 7 Up movie, a singular constant being class.

Where you tumble out, who you tumble out of, into what, makes all the difference after your genes. Its trite. Some nations and cultures explicitly seek to ameliorate this. Others celebrate it, claiming divine sanction for the present regime, or dispensation for tampering with it when indicated.
It makes me sad when I hear talk of evil after these incidents. The kid was fucked in the head. Early childhood education is doable. Society, its moral and money masters have other fish to fry.

Charles I

Where was this woman's mind?

Since we only know 15% of our own, we'll likely never know. Maybe she was out displacing what she perceived as parental failure in face of intractable odds with other redemptive efforts.

We seem to know, as many commented, that resources are thin on the ground, spectrum disorders apparently more manifest than ever, and that this woman likely never had the kind of effective early intervention that we now moot as desirable and hopefully efficacious, but unaffordable, and hence, unrealistic.

Charles I

Bless you. Good luck in your efforts.

turcopolier

MJ

And now they tell us that the .223 was the murder weapon for all these deaths. pl

sleepy

Aside from any role that medication might have playere here, I agree that the widespread use of pscyhotropic medication is an issue that needs to be addressed. I don't believe any of these medications are tested on adolescents, and an adolescent's brain strcture and chemistry is a bit different from an adult. And while the shooter here was not an adolescent, I suspect he'd been taking meds for years.

All of these drugs have warnings about dire side effects and as far as I know, no studies are done--certainly not pre-approval--on long term use of 10 or 15 yrs.

sleepy

I have no idea what current law exists as to the proper secure storage of firearms.

I would propose that some proof of proper storage and/or gun locks be required when weapons are purchased, and that failure to properly secure those weapons be illegal.

The best way to accomplish that would not necessarily be through law enforcement, but through public awareness and education. It worked with smoke detectors and smoking, and with seat belts, even before they were mandatory.

Arun

The issue is not gun control - that is right. The issue is gun safety. If her son was disturbed, Nancy Lanza had an obligation to keep her guns safely from him. The American Academy of Pediatrics says the following,

More than 44 million Americans own firearms. Of the 192 million firearms owned in the United States, 65 million are handguns. Research shows guns in homes are a serious risk to families.

A gun kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill someone known to the family than to kill someone in self-defense.

A gun kept in the home triples the risk of homicide.

The risk of suicide is 5 times more likely if a gun is kept in the home.

Advice to parents

The best way to keep your children safe from injury or death from guns is to NEVER have a gun in the home.

Do not purchase a gun, especially a handgun.
Remove all guns present in the home.

Talk to your children about the dangers of guns, and tell them to stay away from guns.

Find out if there are guns in the homes where your children play. If so, talk to the adults in the house about the dangers of guns to their families.

For those who know of the dangers of guns but still keep a gun in the home.

Always keep the gun unloaded and locked up.

Lock and store the bullets in a separate place.

Make sure to hide the keys to the locked boxes.

The AAP also tells us that every two hours a child is killed by a gun. One in twenty-five admissions to pediatrics trauma units are because of gun injuries.

Parents have an obligation to keep safe the guns they choose to have.


Babak Makkinejad

All:

This incident and other such incidents could have been caused by prolonged usage of mind-altering drugs; widely available in the United States.

Consider:

Sir William Paton, professor of pharmacology at Oxford University published many papers revealing that even limited social use of cannabis could precipitate schizophrenia in people who previously had no psychological problems.

He discovered that smoking a single joint could induce schizophrenia-like symptoms such as hallucinations, paranoia and fragmented thought processes

And that drug is not even the most potent one.

In fact, if you look at the mass murder incidents in the Americas @

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Americas

out of a total of 127 cases, only 24 pre-date 1949.

I submit to you that the drug usage and mass murder correlate.

Note the mass-murders in Colombia, another country riven by drug/dope culture.

Men/Males - specially the young hormone-crazed ones - are evidently mentally unstable. These drugs push them over the edge; it seems.

This is emphatically not a case of the Second Amendment to US Constitution.

This is an issue of public health - of pervasive dope culture and the demand for the Liberty to indulage in it.

When the "White-man" showed up, many Indian tribes drank themselves to death; they could not hold their liquor, as it were.

Likewise, the White-man may not be able to hold his drug.

walrus

My nephew is a candidate for this type of crime. He is withdrawn, a computer gamer, alternately suicidal and ecstatic. He has a rotten educational history at the best schools in the country and a highly dysfunctional childhood thanks to rotten parents.

His father is a severe magistrate, fond of his own voice, and his mother decided that his childhood was not going to interfere with her own career plans (a minor role in a national community organisation) to the point where my nephew was just a "fashion statement". They are worth several millions of dollars yet keep this young man in penury. Neither one of them has invested a minutes emotional capital in his upbringing.

He collects swords.

Why am I the only person who can see what is coming?

Babak Makkinejad

He is probably bi-polar.

Treatments are available but have very severe side effects depending on the usage.

Your nephew also suffers from the absence of initiation rites into male adulthood.

In the absence of such a rite, males could remain childish/boyish for a very long time.

Females do not need such rites; Nature pushes them into womanhood whether they are ready or not.

And I do not buy any of this parental/nurture explanations - children are born with their own nature and parents can only do so much.

Medicine Man

I take it that's a rhetorical question, Mr. Kiracofe.

While I don't advocate it myself, I would think that the thinking of the anti-gun types is obvious. Attach more caveats on how the citizenry's second amendment rights are exercised to lessen the severity of these tragedies when they happen.

Medicine Man

Not a forgone conclusion, Walrus, though I'd say the lack of social interaction is worrisome.

mbrenner

Babak

You're trying to reanimate a dead horse. I don't know the guy whom you cite, but there is an abundance of scientific evidence that cannabis is a mild mood enahncing drug far less dangerous in every respect than alcohol. It is physically and psychologically impossible to become schizophrenia from smoking a joint or having a marijuana brownie with your afternoon tea.

The ban of cannibas, and the Obama persecution of its users, stems from the same blue-nose Calvinist roots that declared the jazz saxophone an instrument of the devil. Those attitudes still survive in some darker corners of the American psyche and in the recesses of insecure politicians' brains. Still, about 60% of Americans have reached the conclusion that the prohibition on cannibas is ridiculous. Chalk one up for sanity.

Kieran

This is about mental health, not guns, not drugs, not video games. Our culture and institutions do not appropriately respond to and care for the insane.

Charles I

Except that there are millions and millions of drug users out there like me who would no more give up their god given plants than many would their guns, and what, a handful of spree killer rapists amongst us. Gun nuts killed a lot more people than potheads, the enforced criminality and huge money pathology aside.

Its not dope culture, Babak, which your culture appears to have predisposed you to fasten on. For chrissakes, COCAINE WAS LEGAL IN THE EARLY PART OF THE CENTURY, I.E,. BEFORE 1949. Its prohibition culture that leads to AVOIDABLE slaughter.

Correlation is not causation. Get a grip.

If the problem is generalized male instability, then that instability, the pre-existing condition, MUST be addressed, cause you ain't winning the drug war later when its too late. THAT'S the public health issue.

As for , paranoia and fragmented thought processes, I get that watching the news. A big fatty puts it all in perspective as I fondle my weapons, strap up and contemplate my victims . . . but first I need a snack. And then a nap. Maybe I'll still be in this murderous drug and ignorance fueled rage tomorrow. . . .

Charles I

Born with their nature, which they get from the parents they are born to, and most likely raised by.

As for the treatments for bipolar illness, from which I suffer, they, and molecular chemo-neurology have come a long way over the decades and can provide stability with less than severe effects. Bio neurology is making great strides in establishing correlations not between drug use and violence, but between morphology of dendritic spinettes,spectrum disorders and auto-immune diseases. This correlation exists prior to and independently of drug use and or violence.

The problem is that treatment is usually only resorted to long after the illness has set in.

We must start teaching emotional intelligence, decriminalize human nature and celebrate our differences Babak. Be no good if there were only Christian teetotalers would it?

Charles I

Well then I hope you find the courage to try to help this young man, let alone his parents, or minimize the potential harm to any one to the extent you are able.

Hard road.

Bababk Makkinejad

I think you are arguing rhetorically in order to excuse the unexcusable.

That is, clearly many males are subject to mental instability once exposed to mind-altering drugs.

I am not taking about correlation here; I am talking about actual experiments in which psychosis has been induced by cannabis and other drugs.

Why do you wish to defend a practice that has caused death as well as personality degradation to so many individuals all over the world?

What is so worth-while about drug use that you wish to defend?

Criminal records in the United States are available and document innumerable cases of crimes caused by drug use - almost always by men - clearly there is a testostrone connection here.

There are cases of child-abuse resulting in death from Iran as well - caused by men on meta-amphetamines or crack.

How much more evidence do you wish to have or need?

People - anywhere in the world - do not have a God-given right to use drugs, bear arms, and go shoot up some poor fellows - no society has to tolerate that.

The crown prince of Nepal Royal Family, in drug-induced stupor, went with a Kalashnikov rifle and massacred all members of the Nepal royal family.

I do not care about all the dope-heads all over the world who can hold their drug; I submit to you that even if a few cannot - that is sufficient reason to have very robust and very stern laws and responses to drug usage, drug trade, and drug distribution.

There is no other way; Liberty does not mean the freedom to screw yourself so much that others die because of you.

Bababk Makkinejad

I think it is a good idea for you - as a scholar - to first acquaint yourself with the scientific evidence that are two-generations old before making assertions on topics of which you are clearly a student.

I am not Calvinist - far from it - and I submit to you that the evidence of male instability induced by drug use is not contestable.

Perhaps, like Charles I above, you may wish to state that millions of drug users are not committing crimes - which could be valid argument if not for those on the margin that “cannot hold their liquor”.

My argument, however, is that if even a small percentage of drug male drug users are subject to psychotic behavior which leads to the death of so many; then it is best to have very stern and very robust laws and penalties against drug usage, distribution, and trade.

I know, from personal experience, that tens of millions of Americans are habitual drug users and do not comprehend, any longer, that they have, in fact, become fiends.

So be it but I also have a duty to Truth as I see it and I have supplied a hypothesis that could be tested.

Has anyone investigated the drug usage background of these mass-murderers?

What if the hypothesis that I have posed turns out to be correct; that these children were killed due to drug-induced mental instability?

Would you then be prepared to treat drug use to a threat against society or are you going to hide behind "Personal Liberty"?

"I have the right to use drugs to the extent that they destroy my sense of right and wrong. I have the right to exercise my second amendment right under US constitution. And I have a right to go and kill people as I wish."

People do not have a right to be dope-heads; society/government has every right to defend itself against self-indulgent hormone and drug crazed men.

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