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13 November 2012


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41 emails a day. This is the kind of leadership we have? William O Wooldridge where are you now?

Neil Richardson

Dear Col. Lang:

Well, Ike had Summersby. Patton had Jean Gordon and who knows how many others. IIRC Pershing had affairs with quite a few women (including Patton's aunt Nita) Admiral Ernest King was a notorious womanizer. So was James Gavin. As you so aptly put it, we really might end up with an army of Roundheads at this rate.

Neil Richardson

Dear Col. Foresman:

My apologies. I thought this was Col. Lang's post.


A Soap Opera indeed:

"This is pretty rich. If you connect the dots, it seems as if this whole thing got started by a smitten FBI agent; would have been closed without charges; but then got reenergized by some Benghazi-fueled (?) concerns that Petraeus was covering up for Obama. Or something. In the end, Petraeus was undone by the wingnuts."



You premise, in my opinion, compares apples to oranges. In my opinion Neil. Although I don't blame you for doing so.... Allow me to exaggerate for simplicity's sake.

Let's say some generals of today had been found to be 'employing slaves'. It would not carry a lot of weight to respond 'well, hell Washington had them...and a lot of generals in the old days had them.' Times change.

The list you mentioned? I would argue that--if you are a moralist--the behavior was certainly wrong. They were married. They took vows. They broke those vows. Ok...bad guys. But by the mores of their time, Class, and career, unless they picked a very troubled woman, those officers were not doing anything that was grossly stupid, grossly irresponsible, or liable to lead to getting caught and being held up to widespread, PUBLIC, ridicule. You can argue that that was due to the hypocrisy of the times, or the arrogance of the times or whatever. But men having affairs were, for the most part, not going to be taken down.

Today it is different and these guys, in particular, know that better than just about anyone. As shrewd self-image watchers as they are. So, by the standards of today (however hypocritically manufactured and honored in the breach standards they may), their actions, if true as reported, were stupid, irresponsible, and reckless. CIA director sending gmail...for god's sake, does he not know how gmail works? Do any of them know? For that alone I would get rid of them.


NR et al

The post was unsigned so the mistake is understandable. Here is some additional material.




If Kelley was given classified info why and by whom?


After reading the article I wonder what Clapper's role was? Why is Senator Feinstein only interested in Benghazi? It seems Benghazi is going to turn into the convenient scape-goat, whipping dog and cover for what might really have been compromised.



I agree with you in the matter of GO randiness. This is human nature and it has not changed. The reason this is a violation in UCMJ is that it was so common a thing throughout our history and it contributed to the store of hostility among the brass. Having been raised in the army village I can testify that stories of officer philandering with colleagues' wives, female relatives (as in Patton's case) or women soldiers were legion. The hypocrisy of today's society with its permissiveness with regard to LGBT behavior as opposed to incredible restrictiveness on heterosexual behavior has changed nothing in regard to basic human drives and this is the most basic of all drives. pl



Clapper probably wanted this issue to "go quiet" as soon a possible. pl

Charles I

Its getting more Peytonish by the hour; one of the lead FBI agents allegedly sent dozens of bare-chested self portraits to Ms. Kelly.

David Petraeus scandal: Scrutiny spreads to FBI agent who investigated emails.

WASHINGTON—The FBI agent who launched the probe that eventually brought down CIA director David Petraeus was taken off the investigation over the summer due to concerns that he’d become personally involved in the case, the Wall Street Journal reported.

The investigation was triggered by Jill Kelley, a friend of Petraeus and his family, after she received harassing emails from Petraeus’s biographer and mistress, Paula Broadwell. Petraeus resigned last week after the affair, which was uncovered by the probe, came to light.

The FBI agent allegedly sent shirtless photos of himself to Kelley, 37, and tipped off a Republican congressman about the case. He is now under internal review by the FBI.

PHOTOS: The David Petraeus scandal

Frustrated and concerned that an inquiry into what he thought may be a possible national security breach had not progressed, the agent got in touch with the office of Rep. Dave Reichert, who passed on the information to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor.

Cantor said he contacted FBI director Robert Mueller on Oct. 31 and a week later, director of national intelligence James Clapper told Petraeus he needed to resign.

“I don’t know if it would have taken this course without Cantor,” a person close to the investigation said.


So the FBI agent had to go outside the COC to the pols, and that's what started this?

Maybe former NY Anthony Rep Weiner(sp) could play this guy in the movie.

Charles I

all the more reason to let 'em get openly married and suffer like everyone else, and get down to the nation's security.


I think it's just wonderful that horny, politically reactionary FBI agents & unpaid "social liason officers" to CENTCOM now run the country.


The question in all this is how do idiots with monumental bad judgement and personal weakness rise to positions of leadership? Power should make them more careful not more egotistical and reckless.


Charles I

Ah, another sermon on gay rights. pl


Hysterical....a national scandel brought on by a bitch fight between Broadwell, a "power climber" and Kelly, a'social climber" over Petraeus, a 'career climber".
Jesus!...our society is so in the toilet..no doubt cable shows rating have gone thru the roof with all this Jerry Springer titillation.


I don't think any of the GO's listed by NR released any classified information to thier mistresses.



It would seem likely that Eisenhower told Summersby a lot. She was his driver and he eventually had her given a field commission as a captain, AUS even though she was not a US citizen. pl

steve g

The 1994 movie Blue Sky starring
Tommy Lee Jones, Jessica Lange and
Powers Boothe mirrors this three-way
morality play quite closely. Ms. Lange
won best actress for her "crazy b*%ch"
role. Hollywood script writers mostly
likely are pitching various projects as
we type. A tv movie in the works? Looks
like a case for Mark Harmon on NCIS.


No Fred, probably not. But again, in the world we live in today, and that these guys and gals rule in, you could classify a ham sandwich. As a lawyer, and as one whose practice area is focused on digital legal issues, for lack of more precise term, I would tell a client that you should always be on guard, once you fuck up and draw attention, to some kind of classified document issue. Or, perhaps, more precise, classified info, as opposed to simply a classified doc, being on the computer in question.


Does anybody else think there is going to be a picture or video of Kelly belly dancing? She sure looks it.

The Moar You Know

Is THIS what the military folks call a clusterf**k? Because if it is, that term suddenly makes a lot more sense than it did last week.

Mike Martin, Yorktown, VA

Does anybody have a good fix on this Kelley's activities wrt to MacDill? I've seen her referred to as "a State Department liaison", "an unpaid events planner", "a liaison to the Joint Special Operations Command" which I thought was at Bragg as opposed to SOCOM which is at MacDill. Whatever. None of those sound like anything I was aware of being part of any commander's staff during my active duty time. Apparently, she and her wealthy surgeon husband are soundly wired into Tampa high society.

This whole affair is getting stinkier by the hour, and, yeah, Peyton Place is a good metaphor.

Neil Richardson

Dear jonst:

"Let's say some generals of today had been found to be 'employing slaves'. "

As a former ADC to then MG Kingston, I'd say it probably still continues today. Jest aside, your point is taken.

"Today it is different and these guys, in particular, know that better than just about anyone. As shrewd self-image watchers as they are. So, by the standards of today (however hypocritically manufactured and honored in the breach standards they may), their actions, if true as reported, were stupid, irresponsible, and reckless. CIA director sending gmail...for god's sake, does he not know how gmail works? Do any of them know? For that alone I would get rid of them."

Let me first note that I believe Petraeus should've resigned earlier. Certainly I'd defer to others here who have served in the IC, but it seems to me this was a firing offense to a layman as far as a DCI is concerned.

However, my point and it's been noted by Col. Lang and others before is that the Army that I knew retained those individuals whose value in wartime were considerable, because the good outweighed the bad. Does this mean that I'd condone idiotic behavior like Tailhook or excuse someone like COL Johnson? Of course not. However, Gen. James Cartwright might've been an outstanding CJCS, and he'd been a sane voice at DOD during the deliberation prior to the Afghan surge. The generals mentioned above and Adm. King in the end saved a lot of American lives despite their personal flaws. I do not know Gen. Allen, but if this starts to spread, a lot of officers down to the field grade level could face reckoning. Then again, since I firmly believe that we need a significant reduction in force, perhaps that's not so bad. I just don't want the Army (I'd defer to others re: USAF and the Navy) to toss out future battlefield commanders who could make a difference as far as leadership is concerned.

I once had the pleasure of meeting Col. Harold Cohen who'd been the CO of 10th Armored Infantry BN in 4th Armored Division. Before the Hammelburg Raid, he came down with a severe case of hemorrhoids. Patton wanted to send a task force to liberate the POW camp where John Waters had been held (his son-in-law). Well, Abe Baum (his S-3) had to lead the task force instead and it turned into a fiasco. Knowing this one of my classmates at AOAC asked him what he thought of Patton. After a long pause, Cohen said that Patton was the finest field commander in the theater, and one did not ask for character references from a surgeon when he has appendicitis.


I think we have entered Imelda Marcos' closet.

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