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07 November 2012

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Matthew

The greatest irony of all: The Israelis will punish the Palestinains for engaging in unilateral diplomacy!

jr786

I'm skeptical about Obama taking political revenge against Israel. I certainly would, in fact I think any reasonable person would take the opportunity to crush their political machinations in the US while the moment is here.

One reason I'm skeptical is when I look at Elizabeth Warren's website and see her unstinting support for the zionist state. I didn't realize Cambridge was a hotbed of neo-colonialism. I think Obama cut his deals to quiet the baying of the neo-con/zionist/Israel First axis in the last two weeks leading up to the election. Is it me or were they suddenly silent?

Any man who doesn't crush his enemies when he can is a fool. But the zionists are not Obama's enemies, just estranged lovers.

turcopolier

jr786

The trouble with people like you is that you see everything through the lens of your "special interests." This keep you from having an objective view of the probabilities. You may be skeptical but you are not cynical enough to grasp or accept the idea of just how many tools there are in the tool bag of a US president for screwing Bibi. pl

Matthew

Col: What does Susan Rice do at the UN? See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3696921,00.html

People underestimate how much diplomatic protection we give Israel. If we merely did nothing, that would really be doing something.

The beaver

Like it or not, being a good guy or an ideologue , but President Obama has nothing to lose now and it's time to "kick butts". If he hangs on to Dempsey and replace the push-over Rice with someone who does understand the middle east @ Turtle Bay, it will be fun watching Bibi and Oren in the coming months.

jr786

Ok, well then it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine something/anything that Obama can/will do to undermine Bibi's actions or influence, right?

The day of the election the israelis made a point of announcing bids for contracts for continued expansion into E. Jerusalem. Maybe Obama could start there.

Cynical? I'm out here 4 years, on my way to Afghanistan in March, insh'all-h. Cynical? I passed that a long time ago.

Cloned Poster

Obama will not be going for re-election but Democratic party are, it is a brilliant opportunity to win. PL is correct.

rick

Boy, wouldn't "Screwing Bibi Tsar" be a great job?

Fred

“"When people fight for their political life and have the perception that their partner is trying to undermine their chances,…” Partner’s, right.

I think President Obama should show his full support by publicly stating quite clearly that the United States is fully committed to adhere – to both the letter and intent - of all treaties of alliance and mutual defense between the United States and our best ally in the region – Israel - that have been ratified by the United States Senate.

What was it John Adams said in 1770, “Facts are stubborn things”. Well there's perception and then there are facts. Treaties - none; partners - they aren't.

William R. Cumming

Predict BIBI will feel Obama's wrath over time!

Cal

Obama has always struck me as someone who because of the unique elements in his life and past, his dual race, his unbringing in various settings, has a great ability to compartmenalize, to put his personal feelings in a lockbox so they don't color or interfer with his stragety. I don't think we will see any signs of personal revenge. I can see the possibility of him in his second term doubling down on Israel and Netanyahu in a myraid of ways because they "obstructed him" in his goals on I/P. 'Winning' is Obama's substitue for whatever human inclination toward revenge he has or ever had toward anyone or anything that ever obstructed his goals.

Cal

Absolutely. Doing nothing is all that is necessary.

turcopolier

All

Whatever planning the US armed forces have done for an air campaign against Iran will be for its own forces and will not not have anything to do with Israel. Israel lacks the means and knowledge needed to be a worthwhile partner in such a campaign. pl

E L

BHO is cold and calculating enough to dismember Bibi if its in the best interest of the USA. I think Bibi knows this and might strike early next year when BHO is tangled in domestic problems like the "fiscal cliff," the debt ceiling, and the Bush tax cuts. But, then again, Bibi's mind is a strange and wonderful thing so I'm just guessing.

Margaret Steinfels

Assume you saw Bibi's lastest dig at Obama the day before the election.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday reiterated his willingness to attack the Iranian nuclear program without support from Washington or the world, returning to an aggressive posture that he had largely abandoned since his United Nations speech in September."

Plus the usual parsing by Israeli politicians and intelligence.

Here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/world/middleeast/netanyahu-uses-tough-tone-on-possible-iran-strike.html

hope4usa

Col.,
'Turnabout is fair play.'
'What's good for the goose is good for the gander.'
It's way over due to have a government in Israel that is willing to work with the US and resolve the Palestinian issues. The positive impact to foreign relations with the ME can't possibly be overstated.

JohnH

Someone says that Israel is at a strategic dead end. First, there was Hezbollah's survival in 2006, which shredded the myth of Israel's invulnerability. Next, there was the Arab Spring, which has forced ME regimes to be more attentive to the sentiments of their people.

How did Bibi respond? Bluster, more bluster and implicit blackmail of the United States. Bibi's bubble is about to burst.

I can't wait.

Fred

Well Obama could always get a dig in at Bibi by suggesting we name the next carrier USS Liberty. Regardless of the eventual name the point would certainly be clear.

oofda

Fred,
Good point, for readers who don't know, there is no mutual defense treaty between the United States and Isreal.

Ken Hoop

besides, you gotta go to the far left of Israel's political spectrum (further than the Greens here,
much further) to find a force that will deal fairly with the Palestinians. Not the Labor Zionists, not even close.

LeaNder

JohnH, I think apart from Israel's huge support of the Machiavellian Iraq war, the most stupid decision was to add their own attempts at ME house keeping to the larger War on Terrorism during a time of raised public attention, first Lebanon and then Gaza. It may have felt opportune to fight shoulder to shoulder with the US against "Middle Eastern terrorism", but I think strategically it was a very stupid thing to do. It focused attention on Israel to a much larger extend, then had ever happened before. Add to that Netanyahu's own highly publicized attempts at trying to keep at the center of the limelight.

The larger world will not and cannot allow Israel to continue its business as usual with the Palestinians anymore. And I think below his pompous parading Netanayhu knows it, it is in fact the reason for it.

I like Mark Ellis' series of article over at Mondoweiss, but I doubt that, 911 was a gift from heaven for Israel:

http://tinyurl.com/a-gift-from-heaven

turcopolier

LeaNder

Machiavellian implies method and a pursuit of rational interests. There was none of that unless you still cling to the oil fable. pl

confusedponderer

There is another alternative:

That at least some of the folks adhered to the unrealistic notion that both the US and Israel can make a clean break in the Middle East and 'change the game' in by 'shaping the environment' in their favour, and thought of that as a strategy to achieve the aforementioned 'rational interest' of US and Israeli dominance.

The failed Israeli attempt at Lebanon in 2006 was probably meant to 're-shape' Lebanon, whereas Cast Lead was an exercise in demonstrably beating up a weaker party to show off how tough Israel was even after their defeat at the hands of Hezbollah.

confusedponderer

When the Bulgarians went on the warpath in the Second Balkan War, the Russia's Foreign Minister Sazonov's used these exact words to Bulgaria's new Prime Minister Danev:

"Do not expect anything from us, and forget the existence of any of our agreements from 1902 until present."

Pretty unambiguous message to a client state gone rogue.

Wouldn't it be nice if Bibi would get to hear something like that if he tried anything stupid in Iran's direction?

The beaver

Colonel

The latest: trying to make up:-)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/world/middleeast/netanyahu-rushes-to-repair-damage-with-obama.html?hp&_r=2&

"Mr. Netanyahu woke up Wednesday to find not only that his Republican friend had lost, but also that many Israelis were questioning whether he had risked their collective relationship with Washington.

“This has not been a very good morning for Netanyahu,” a deputy prime minister, Eli Yishai of the religious Shas Party, told journalists in Eilat. "

I guess the boys from J street and AIPAC relied too much on the polling abilities of Karl Rove and George Will .

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